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“Second Death” – Who is going there?

Who is in danger of the Second Death?  Are you, your neighbors or family members?  This topic can be as frightening as Armageddon, yet when the topic is carefully reviewed form what the Bible teachings, it is not so frightening as it seems.  Fear can be used to control people and too many Church denominations/organization have clubbed there members over the head with fear of such things as hell, Armageddon and second death.

Chicago Bible Student Elder, Ted Marten, presents and detailed and comprehensive review of the topic, “The Second Death.”  Listen by clicking the link below.

Second Death_Marten-Ted_2012-02-19_D_24k

15 comments to “Second Death” – Who is going there?

  • David Lawrence

    Thank you for the enlightening talk about Second Death!

  • David Lawrence

    I enjoyed this talk about second Death. I have have never understood it quite this way before. As a JW I heard many such talks. As a Bible Student I have heard talks on the subject, but, this one was by far the most eye opening! I love how our LORD God reveals things to us in his time and way.

    • Peter K. (admin)

      Glad you enjoyed it Bro. David. God is very merciful and he is the judge of all. No human or organization has the authority to condemn anyone to second death.

      Lamentations 3:22-23 (ESV) “The steadfast love of the Lord never ceases; his mercies never come to an end; they are new every morning; great is your faithfulness.”

  • Koinonia (Bible Student)

    Hi Jerome,

    Found your comments interesting and have to share some thoughts about the second death. I especially agree that organizations have not followed Jesus teachings and God’s word. These organizations have placed burdens on men by teaching the time of man’s probation and testing as occurring during Satan’s reign of evil, before the truth is made plain to all Jeremiah 31:34 and all have come to an accurate knowledge of the truth 1 Timothy 2:4.

    Speaking of Judas, Jesus said “woe to the man by whom the son of man is betrayed! It would have better for that man if he had not been born” Matt 26:24 and of the Apostles, Jesus had lost none “save the son of perdition that the scripture might be fulfilled” – John 17:12 Jesus teaching indicates that Judas committed the sin unto death from which there would be no resurrection for him.

    Too, there will be a portion of mankind who will live through the time of trouble and become part of Christ’s kingdom. These will have experienced the dying process but without expiring in death. These would not be reawakened out of death (i.e. have a second birth as you say) but would be subject to what the scriptures identify as the second death. It is true that all that are in the graves will hear the voice of the Son of man and come forth. The men and women who live through the time of trouble will not need to be called forth from the grave.

    Your comment on John 3:16 focuses only on the destruction aspect. Bear in mind the positive portion of this verse, God gave Jesus that man might have life! Had Jesus not given himself on the cross, there would be no redemption price for mankind and no reawakening from the dead, and no opportunity for full restoration to perfection and to the standing of a son of God as Adam had. Jesus became Lord of the living and the dead so that he might bestow this great gift of life upon mankind. Without the redemption price, the dead would have remained in the condition of oblivion. The scriptures refer to mankind as “asleep in the grave” only because of the promises of the reawakening that would be guaranteed by Christ death. For all practical purposes this death is the same as the second death, were it not for Jesus’s ransom sacrifice. Both deaths are oblivion. This is what makes the reawakening from death so miraculous, a return to life from oblivion!

    Paul points out in Hebrews 6:4-6 that those who are begotten by the holy spirit, if they fall away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance. In Hebrews 10:25-26 He points out to the church that those who willfully sin against the light of truth have come out from under Jesus sacrifice and the only thing that remains is a fearful looking for of judgment. These again are references to the sin unto death, to oblivion.

    I take it that you did not mean to imply that no one is subject to eternal oblivion until after the thousand years, as the texts above and others teach that the church members, the anointed ones, are on probation for life now, and have been since Pentecost.

    Revelation 20:6 is interesting because Jesus says the second death has no power on those who were faithful to him before the 1000 years and they will share his reign. In other words their test is past and they were rewarded with a share in the first resurrection, therefore they are not subject to the test after the thousand years ends. See also Revelation 2:11.

    Your perspective on Revelation applying entirely after the end of the thousand years is overstated. It is a large jump to go from Revelation 1:1 to Revelation 20:7. Much of Revelation applies to the history of the church (the seven churches), to the period of Christ’s return when he began his reign, and to the destruction of false earthly systems, particularly Babylon. All of this is part of what Jesus shows the church as “what must shortly come to pass”.

    Regarding angels – the Greek means messenger – In Revelation 19:10 and 22:9 the angel self identifies himself to John as “thy fellow servant and of they brethren, the prophets”. God has used men as his messengers (angels) and prophets in the past.

    Be well.

    • Brettstone

      I enjoyed your response to jerome. Nice scriptures used and good explanations for those used.
      But if i might say i disagree with one small point made. It was found at Hebrews 10:25-26, where i believe the answer is found in verse 27. Here paul quotes the Greek septuigent which is a quote of a judgment day scripture Isa 26:11 and if you look back to verse 9 and 10 you will find that it is during the Mellinium that “Fire consumes the adversary”.

      King James Version Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

      Isa 26-9-11
      KiJV Isa 26:9 With my soul have I desired thee in the night; yea, with my spirit within me will I seek thee early: for when thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness. Let favour be shewed to the wicked, yet will he not learn righteousness: in the land of uprightness will he deal unjustly, and will not behold the majesty of the LORD.

      • Koinonia (Bible Student)

        Hi Brett,

        Isaiah 26:9 is one of my favorite texts – I had not noticed the connection, though between verse 11 and Hebrews 10:27. Have you considered that the principle expressed in Isaiah 26:11 and Hebrews 10:27 may be valid in multiple time contexts? In other words Isaiah 26:11 applies during the Millennium as you say but Hebrews 10:27 would apply to some among the anointed class who fall away completely from Christ. Just to share my understanding for discussion, those subject to the sin unto death applies:

        1. During the Gospel Age to spirit-begotten Christians who fall away from their covenant with Christ. Hebrews 6:4-6 and 10:26-29 – See also 2 Peter 2:10-22 for a description of these.
        2. During the Millennium to those who “refuse to hear that prophet” Acts 3:23, or as expressed in Isa 26:10 the wicked who will not learn righteousness. Speaking of this class Isaiah 65:20* points to 100 years as the time given for reawakened mankind to hear Christ and to learn righteousness.
        3. After the Millennium to those who are deceived by the loosed Satan and who go up against the camp of the saints. Revelation 20:7-10. The deceived class would correspond to the goat class from Matthew 25:31-46 who did not actively help their fellows during the Millennium. The goat class did not refuse to hear “that prophet” or to learn righteousness – their problem is that though outwardly obedient, the lessons do not change their hearts. They won’t catch the spirit of the kingdom, so to speak, but only do enough to get by themselves without assisting others. When Satan is loosed the goat class, those who still have sympathy for sin in their hearts, are deceived, manifested and die the second death.

        *Isa 65:20 There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man, that hath not filled his days; for the youngest shall die a hundred years old, and the sinner being a hundred years old shall be accursed. This is a Jewish Publication Society translation which I recommend as most translations of this verse are poor. The meaning here is that no one would die at less than 100 years, and incorrigible sinners are the ones who would die accursed.

        Thanks for sharing your thoughts, it is always so good to discuss the scriptures. Be well, Koinonia

        • Brettstone

          Thanks for your reply… Very valid points made
          I’m certainly enjoying the freedom in Christ as an ex-Jw and now a Bible student, being able to openly discuss scriptures with fellow bible students and see each other’s perspective on text.
          Continue your work in Christ
          Jah Bless

          • Koinonia (Bible Student)

            Brett – I can not agree more. I’ve known John 8:32 since I was a kid “the truth shall make you free”, but never understood it until learning the. Our liberty in Christ, freedom from sin and fear and freedom to serve Him and Jesus are so joyous. I’m so glad to have e-met you. Koinonia

  • First of all let me say that it is not the “Bible” that teaches anything: “Christ” teaches and he is out Teacher. (Matthew 23:8 and John 13:13)

    Before one can understand who goes into the Second Death, one must know what it is.

    The very name – Second Death – implies a First Death. If there is a First Death, there must be a First Birth. If there is a First Birth, then there is a Second Birth. So we have:

    First Birth
    First Death
    Second Birth
    Second Death

    All of mankind born since Adam experience a First Birth and a First Death. That is, we all were born of human parents and we all grow old, get sick and die.

    Jesus promised a Second Birth to ALL at John 5:28-29. He said:

    “Do not marvel at this, because the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice and come out, those who did good things to a resurrection of life, those who practiced vile things to a resurrection of judgment.”

    The resurrection of all dead mankind is the Second Birth. It is what Jesus referred to as being “born again.” The Pharisee Nicodemus did not understand and many today do not understand what Jesus was talking about. (John 3:3-8)

    The instances of us all having a First Birth and First Death simply shows that we have “life” and then we have death.

    Yet, on the other side – the instances of the Second Birth and Second Death – it is different. How so?

    With them, it is not life and death, but “eternal life and eternal death.”

    Notice at John 3:16 why Jehovah gave His Son to the world of mankind (notice the wording):

    “For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, in order that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life.”

    God DID NOT give His son to the world of mankind so that we NOT die. We all will die and people are dying as I write this. Such was the pronouncement upon Adam and his offspring: A First Death.

    No, God gave His Son into the world of mankind so that it not be “destroyed” (perish) or go into The Lake of Fire which is The Second Death. (Rev 20:14)

    No one today is subject to The Second Death. They “cannot” become subjects to it until they have a Second Birth or resurrection from the dead.

    Then going into The Second Death or Lake of Fire is “conditional.” It will depend upon what one does AFTER Christs 1000 kingdom ends and whether or not they respond favorably to the declaration by the angel to them of the Good News of the Kingdom. (Rev 14:6)

    First of all in those future days AFTER Christ 1000 years ends: The Dragon, his Wild Beast, his False Prophet will not respond to the declaration by the angel of the Good News of the Kingdom, so they will go into The Lake of Fire which is the Second Death (nonexistence). (Rev 20:10)

    Yet, ALL of that future world after Christs 1000 year kingdom will be misled by Satan at his ascension out of the Abyss. That is why an angel – not humans – is seen charged with declaring the Good News of the Kingdom to that misled world. (Rev 14:6)

    The declaration of the Good News of the Kingdom to that restored but misled world of mankind serves the purpose of “un-misleading” them and getting it back on course. That angelic declaration also serves to announce that God’s Kingdom is about to come down and the “throne” or kingdom they exist in (Satans; Rev 2:13) will be destroyed.

    Those who do not respond to the angelic preaching of the Good News of the Kingdom – which is witnessed by the angelic declarer – do so knowingly and defiantly and will end up in The Second Death which is The Lake of Fire.

    The misled who respond favorably to the angelic declaration of the Good News of the Kingdom will be granted everlasting life. They “come alive” in the sense that they are given everlasting life.

    I know what the Watch Tower teach as I was a JW for more than 20 years. They are in error. I have read just about every explanation of this that there is; and they have all missed the boat. They are way off target and teach doctrines of men about this subject.

    The key to understand the revelation God gave Jesus is to understand for what era of time it would apply. The events of the revelation are about what will “shortly” take place AFTER Christs 1000 year kingdom over the earth ends and when Satan ascends.

    That is why the Apostle John came to be in the “Lord’s Day” or in Christs (the Lord) 1000 year kingdom over the earth. (Rev 1:13). In other words, he was shown the events that would “follow” the ending of that day or 1000 year time period.

    Notice at Rev 1:13 that John was looking “forward” into the future from “within” the Lord’s Day. How do I know this? Because Rev 1:10 has John saying: “… and I heard behind me …” and Rev 1:12 saying: “And I turned to see the voice that was speaking with me, and, having turned …”

    So if a voice was speaking from “behind” him and he had to turn around, then John was facing forward from within the Lord’s Day he was looking at future events – not from our time period today – but from within a future time period “after” the Lord’s Day.

    It is those events (things) that Jesus said he wanted to show his slaves that must shortly take place. (Rev 1:1)

    The Second Death is ONLY applicable to those persons (actually all of mankind of the second resurrection) that time after Christ 1000 kingdom ends.

    I pray people stop listening to religious organizations start listening to the one God gave the revelation to: His Son. (Rev 1:1 and Luke 9:35)

    If they do this, they will see this and they will be free from the indoctrination that holds them in captive and see this wonderful truth. (John 8:31-32)

  • ari matthew davies

    the bible says he who has died all their sins are forgiven,theirfore its resonable to gather that the second death is for those that have #1comited the blasphemhy of the holy spirit#2 will be resurected into the milleniun and fail the final test.. the bible say all those in the memorial tombs will be resurected some to life some to receive judgment their will be many a person in the 1000 year reighn who will be their for correction by work and instruction those that do not respond to jesus arent gurenteed to live 1000 years and than given a final test jesus could decide that hey your just not makeing progress and those people will die a physical death the second time and no memory of them will remain that is their second death,their is some pretty scarry scriptures out their about this lake of fire no rest day or night and tormented foreever! now I have not been their and Im not going to say their is no such thing and its onley figurative neither will I preach hell fire and brimstone for the wicked !jesus said you will know the truth and the truth will set you free ! therefore free your self of all worry of the second death and gehena! worship jehovah and ask jesus for forgiveness and his kingship and when the thousand years is over and you catch site of who you think is jesus and he says well done good faithfull slave come on up to heaven,then dont you start to go pray out loud to jehovah and say oh jehovah Be it unto me acording to your word!for the final test might just be who shall go up into heaven with me and make your home with the most highs.. then remember who said it. oh just imagine the millons that will remember the old raptured to heaven story and then shall the prophecy be complete in that day you will consider the place of the wicked ! you will look for them but not find them ! onley the rightous shall remain and the wicked shall be removed ! yep watch out the bible says that the so called rapture removes the wicked from the earth not the rightous,Im just beting that when satan is released from the abis his scam will be to apear as jesus and invite many to join the rapture to heaven and its my guess that many would be deceived well thats just a little guess.

  • Jacqueline

    I heard this talk and it is a must hear.

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