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Should the Governing Body be Questioned and Put to the Test?

Keefa contributed and interesting comment that we present below slightly modifed.  We do not mean to cause offense to those highly respect and regard the Jehovah’s Witness Governing Body.  However, what we do want to do is raise the question, how can any religious group know that they are in the Jehovah’s Group with Jehovah’s  appointed leaders? 

It is hard to talk to a Catholic since no matter what the Bible says, they trust the Pope and Church tradition.  It’s hard to talk to a Mormon, since the book of Mormon supersedes the Bible and since the Mormon president is God’s prophet in their eyes.  Shouldn’t there be some way that a Catholic or Mormon could discover if there is any mistake in their group or if their group is even Jehovah’s Group?  Yes, at some point, the authority of the Bible needs to supersede what these self styled Apostles claim so as to determine if they really are representatives of Jehovah.   It is circular reasoning to just accept their authority without putting it to the test, otherwise no person could ever find their way out of a false religion, since everything their authority says is correction, no matter what the Bible appears to say different.  Below is Keefa’s article

     ———————————————————–

Did you know that our organization has hidden the true meaning of Rev 2:2 right before our very eyes, its has not rendered the Greek reflexive pronoun accurately.

NWT reads (Revelation 2:2) ‘I know your deeds, and your labor and endurance, and that you cannot bear bad men, and that you put those to the test who say they are apostles, but they are not, and you found them liars.

I have used two other translations to make the point clear of how the verse should read:

NAU Revelation 2:2 ‘I know your deeds and your toil and perseverance, and that you cannot tolerate evil men, and you put to the test those who call themselves apostles, and they are not, and you found them to be false;

NJB Revelation 2:2 I know your activities, your hard work and your perseverance. I know you cannot stand wicked people, and how you put to the test those who were self-styled apostles, and found them false.

On a good note the Kingdom Interlinear  version correctly renders this verse and think you may to check the variance.

So the phrase we want to focus on is who call themselves apostles, In Greek  “heautous  is a Greek reflexive, plural pronoun.The reflexive pronoun reflects the action back to the subject, and therefore, the English translation will use such words as myself, yourself, themselves. So linguistically I propose the Watchtower society is hiding something from us here and that’s why I think it is noteworthy to check other up-to-date Bible translations and if possible purchase a lexicon and look at the meaning of some these words.

Now here is the doctrinal error.. Who does it say we should put to the test? According to the NJB translation those who were (are) self-styled apostles.  Who has claimed to be the brothers of Messiah? is not the Governing Body the ones who make special claims of having been appointed and then sent by Jesus who are the focus of what we read, in part, in Revelation 2:2.  

It seems likely, therefore, the Society has deliberately omitted any discussion of ‘putting them to the test’ when it coesm to its own claims to appointment and authority.  Instead look in the Watchtower 2012 CD ROM, I only see 5 hits of the phrase “put those to the test.”  So in 64 years no Watchtower article has ever stated that the Governing Body should be put to the test by its rank and file members.

Instead they turn this around on us rank and file members as the ones who are put to the test by them (field service hours, meeting attendance, contributions, regional building work etc.); but instead why are we not listening to the very words of our Master and Messiah Jesus.  Jesus said to put those to the test who are calling themselves as self-styled apostles if anything, this testing “require” that those ‘testing’ the Watchtower Society reject them, immediately, unless they repent (compare Revelation 2:21-23) and stop teaching things which are not true [i.e. blood transfusions, everyone who dies in Armageddon dies the second death, 1925, 1975, etc.], even requiring belief in such things for “approved association, and even if we secretly reject any teaching from the Watchtower we are still condemned. Once again, there is no application of “put those put to the test” from Revelation 2:2 to anyone in the congregations of the Watchtower, though such ‘testing’ is expressly approved by Jesus for any who make special claims of having been sent by him. As we examined Revelation 2:2, we see the Watchtower Society does not want any of its members ‘putting the Society to the test,’ though it is made up of the very ones who make the kinds of claims as self-styled apostles which we are told to “test.”

I need a good response to these questions and translation issues, can anyone help?

118 comments to Should the Governing Body be Questioned and Put to the Test?

  • Jacqueline

    I was disturbed by the first part of one of these videos as the governingbody member encouraged the elders to act like Jehoshaphat and be decisive and Jehovah would support them.
    Elders should not be in battle with the flock, the are to be kind like Jesus. Jehoshaphat was killing people and there was no organization or elders back then so how could this be used. This is harsh warfare talk against sheep.

    http://jwsurvey.org/cedars-blog/be-obedient-and-decisive-governing-body-instructions-to-elders-leaked-on-youtube

  • Anonymous

    Here’s the days text from yesterday from JW.org…..http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/dt/r1/lp-e/2014/2/4……….is there anything about this text that captures your attention?

    • Jacqueline

      I am speechless, but notice that I am still going to write a lot.
      They quote Ted Turner as being a barrier breaker (by the way a worldly man in their jargon). Then turn right around and say only witnesses have done this, but notice the buzz word as a “group”. This The July 15, 2013 Watchtower magazine was brought up in media in Australia and Huffington Post, concerning the hate message and calling person’s mentally diseased. They call people like Ted Turner worldly and declares that he if not a part of the organization at Armageddon will suffer the wrath of God and go into Gehenna (second death).
      So on a number of levels I see something wrong with this daily text! It seems the writers are not proofreading. It is not following rational reasoning on the first statements harmonizing with the rest of the statements.
      What do you see, if any thing?

      • Anonymous

        I feel the same way as you Jacqueline! I was immediately repulsed when it said “ONLY” Jehovah’s witnesses…..and yes right before that they they say Ted turner thinks like them. I brought this to my wifes attention and of course, in true Jw style, she tried to defend the watchtower. At the end of our conversation I said “how would anyone know that only Jw’s think like God?”

        • Jacqueline

          Also I was a guest of Ted Turner in Vegas, he produced the “Trumpet Awards” after his marriage to Jane Fonda was over. They need to bring back the research team and get the proofreaders back in that research etc. Quote Socrates, Wiki or somebody but if you say a person is just like you, or what they say is to be considered, you better know that person if you are a religious magazine. Just saying without saying.

  • Keepha

    Lets put to the test on this issue. The Society acknowledge that the name Jehovah is improper. The book, “Let Your Name Be Sanctified” freely admits on pages 16 and 18 that Yahweh is the superior translation of the Tetragrammaton. This book has lately been withdrawn. However, in the preface of their “The Kingdom Interlinear Translation of the Greek Scriptures,” we find on page 23 the following admission: “While inclining to view the pronunciation ‘Yahweh’ as the more correct way, we have retained the form ‘Jehovah’ because of people’s familiarity with it since the 14th century. Moreover, it preserves equally with other forms, the four letters of the Tetragrammaton JHVH.”
    JW’s out there what are you thoughts on this?

  • Keepha

    @Anonymous I agree with you and we must not become captives of this concept. We must not let the organization set themselves up as an idol over us. Have we not learned in the account of Jeroboam what happens when an organization try’s to supplement the requirements for true worship. Messias(Messiah) is a our mediator alone. I read the Watchtower. I was disappointed because I rather learn more about Biblical doctrine and teachings rather than the organization. Its seems that too much focus is on the organization.

  • Anonymous

    Today at a Jw Sunday meeting, the subject of overseers(elders)being appointed by holy spirit came up,they feel they can say this because they’re appointed according to the requirements set out in the Bible books of Titus and Timothy.It dawned on me that that’s a form of deception, it’s like me saying I’m a lawyer because I went to the library and studied law but didn’t take a bar exam nor was officially appointed as such.Any opinions?

    • Anonymous

      I real enjoy what you had to said , that so on the ball ,do you still going to the meeting ? Does any still go to the meeting who chat on her ? Only asking , because I just left .:-( can’t stand elders lie to my face , asking him which god do you server , he never relay to that ? Yes I do now he will tell other she never fit in I told she was black sheep,

  • arimatthewdavies

    men and lady’s it should not be that hard to tell who the faith full and discreet slave is..you know the one who is to give food while the master is away? the bible tells you flat out with no mumbo jumbo…unless I go away the comforter will not come(holy spirit) the one who will explain all these things to you! the faithful discreet slave is the comforting and empowering holy spirit who is in charge of giveing you your food when you need it..
    wake up and get the point you have 12 examples called apostles! who received holy spirit and then traveled around preaching by two and three! people no were and I mean no were in the bible does the apostles write a joint letter to any congregation! the apostles were circuit servants who went about encouragingly and with corrections from the holy spirit! who is the faith full and discreet slave of Jehovah and Jesus..he can not and will not ever fail out deliver unfit food. now dear governing body if Jehovah appointed you to lead all of gods organization he would have given you the signs and wonders to prove it like mosses like Joshua like Elijah Elisha and the apostles! just as Jehovah himself ha always given those powers unto his leaders to prove that they are leaders! but you conveniently misused a bible vs that said those gifts pass away with the apostles? who according to that exact same chapter never slept! never died! so no no no you are not appointed by God as the f.d.s! you are 8 spirituality drunk men who need to sober up and tell people that gods holy spirit feeds us and appoints local servants to carry the food down the isles! their is no religious group that we turn to on a hierarchy level as the Jews did to the sanheidrine! that’s over that system was proven false and destroyed by Jehovah God! don’t you bring it back to my brothers and sisters! go instead by the power of your two feet and take a partner and go minister! come on wake up when you guys go out you have guards and a trumpeters to go before you…..aghhhh no more just get right with Jesus.

  • wagia

    Jacqueline, excellent research. These people are literally writing their own Bible to fit their own desires. This just teaches us how easy it is to indoctrinate people into false belief’s.When we become adults,as you mentioned,
    the importance of examining scripture and receiving the correct interpretation is of extreme importance to “all” christian’s. They call it “new light” received from Jehovah through the G.B. Where is that stated in the BIBLE. Some are very “self righteous”. I am so sorry that I got baptized as one with-out examining the the scriptures to a greater extent. “I’ve always had my doubts.” Now I can enjoy the satisfaction in finding the ” THE ACCURATE TRUTH “. For I found that “tugboat” also. “Christian Love”. Warren.

  • arimatthewdavies

    This is my personal opinion on the matter.and it based on the bible. Dear governing body, I don’t believe anything you say anymore because you have lied and changed your position just way too many times! The bible is very clear on this matter. It says if someone says something using the name of Jehovah and it does not happen.then he is a false prophet and you must not listen further! Governing body you have prophecised using the name of Jehovah thousands of times and when it did not happen the way you said .new litterateurs and new bibles were written to explain away your errors.. dear sirs, it is a grave sin to listen too you anymore because the bible says so!
    Should people be questioning and testing you? Heck no! You have been questioned and tested and its with great sorrow that I must turn my back to you because you failed
    Repeatedly Jehovah’s test of truth. No more testing no more questions! But you can repent! You can. Admit that you lied to gain power and be forgiven! That doesn’t mean you can be trusted but you can start new lives as repentent men of god…. guys its like this you told me that the gifts of the holy spirit passed away with the apostles and at first glance that’s a bible vs but just read on! OK now I’ve got the job of telling everybody that I preached a lie that I learned from the kingdomhall and that’s a grevious sorrow to me! I trusted you and the kingdomhall and believed that Jehovah was telling you all those things and I submitted to it for Jehovah’s sake in obedience!
    But what can I say? What Jehovah foretells comes to be.Jehovah doesn’t amend doctrines to match circumstances! He stretches out his mighty arm and makes circumstances bow to his written word.that’s how we know that you faked us out and used us to buy you real estate and worldly goods. so no don’t question these men remove these evil doers from among you rebuke them so that they will repent and receive forgiveness in Jesus name. oh I know I sound harsh I sound to Jehovah’s wittnesses like an evil apostate. But I’m not king Robert! I am ari Matthew Davies a simple prophet of Jehovah that wants you to go to Jesus go to Jehovah ask for the holy spirit and read his bible..run like heck from men who claim to have heard a special thing from Jehovah and wants to be your go between mediator! Jesus Christ is your mediator and the curtain was ripped open! Because you yourself now have the right and responsibility and privileges to go to Jehovah yourself in prayer and get an answer. the idea of a governing body is nothing more than returning to the Jewish traditions of the Sanhedrin! Who has bewitched you? Asks the bible you were freed by the blood of Jesus and now your returning to the same tradition of those men?? What? Rise up men and lady’s of Jehovah get with Jesus Christ one on one then find partners that also believe in Jesus as the door! Then go make some fellow believers! Quit talking and reading from magazine s and tell people what Jesus Christ did for you….example I used to be a crack addict! Until Jesus healed me! Now I’m a zealous internet minister..now get some of what you have been tricked out of call on Jehovah s mighty name right now in the name of Jesus and let the govern your body!!

  • Anonymous

    Keepha, don’t feel bad when “men” tell you stuff like that…..they’re being unreasonable.When I was a younger Jw, I used to let things like that bother me but now I know that my relationship is between me,Jesus and Jehovah. In my cong. the elders are very reasonable and if someone is sicke they are VERY compassionate towards them…as you know, not all congs. are the same, they each have there own personality.When you read about the 7 congs. in revelation, they all had their +’s and -‘s.

  • Keepha

    @Windsurfer &Jacqueline If Jesus said his yoke was kind and his load light, then how is it that while I was attending a Sunday meeting, a brother gave a comment that EVEN IF WE ARE SICK WE SHOULD STILL MAKE THE MEETINGS. Is a yoke like that kind? Some JW’s are even encouraged to quit their jobs or reduce to part time work to enter the Pioneer service, would you say that this load is light? Come on now…reason with me in love..am I speaking truth or not?

    • Jacqueline

      You are not talking about Jesus or God. So I will answer about whether an organization or it’s henchmen have the right to make decisions for you or an individual.
      One thing I find on the Facebook groups; EX-JW DON’T KNOW HOW TO IDENTIFY THE ENEMY. That is a strange phenomenon among the witnesses who try to teach others. They can’t separate God from the governingbody organization.
      So the answer is no you are grown and make decisions for your family.along with your wife.
      MEn sin and we blame GOD. JW organization and GOD are not related you belong to a club and it has rules. The governing body told you, if you don’t like it leave. They don’t force anyone but you will lose family and so called friends. And if You lose them you have to ask if they were your friends anyway.

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