Bible Student Elder, David Stein led a round table discussion on this topic. Joining him was other Bible Students Jim Parkinson, Ric Cunningham and JM.
Read ” AFTER ARMAGEDDON ” to discover a brighter result of this climatic event than has been reported. Click here to order the free booklet “After Armageddon” Type in the coupon code: ARMAGEDDON
Many Jehovah’s Witnesses look on Armageddon with great fear for themselves and especially loved ones not residing in the safety of the “Ark” (JW Organization). Just who will survive Armageddon? Let’s see how the JW Organization has answered this question in the past.
Watchtower Sept 1, 1989 page 19. – “Only Jehovah’s Witnesses, those of the anointed remnant and the “great crowd,” as a united organization under the protection of the Supreme Organizer, have any Scriptural hope of surviving the impending end of this doomed system dominated by Satan the Devil.”
Watchtower 2007 Dec. 15 p.14 “But Jehovah’s servants already belong to the only organization that will survive the end of this wicked system of things. ”
If correct, then the angel’s promise of great joy for ALL people (Luke 2:10) is of little encouragement, since billions of mankind would never benefit from that promise. Bible Students agree and hope that many of the living Jehovah’s Witnesses will survive Armageddon. However, we also find scriptural evidence that many others will survive Armageddon as well as explained in the materials here linked to.
Here are more quotes:
You Can Live Forever in Paradise on Earth p.255 – “Do not conclude that there are different roads, or ways, that you can follow to gain life in God’s new system. There is only one. There was just one ark that survived the Flood, not a number of boats. And there will be only one organization- God’s visible organization – that will survive the fast-approaching “great tribulation”. . . You must be part of Jehovah’s organization, doing God’s will, in order to receive his blessing of everlasting life. ”
Watchtower 2006 May 15 p.22 “Are You Prepared for Survival?” Paragraph – “During the final period of the ‘ancient world’ that perished in the Flood, Noah was a faithful ‘preacher of righteousness.’ (2 Peter 2:5) In these last days of the present system of things, Jehovah’s people are making known God’s righteous standards and are declaring good news about the possibility of surviving into the new world. (2 Peter 3:9-13) Just as Noah and his God-fearing family were preserved in the ark, survival of individuals today depends on their faith and their loyal association with the earthly part of Jehovah’s universal organization. ”
Does the Bible support this frightening prospect. Will friends and family of JWs who are outside of the organization be eternally destroyed, if they die at the time of Armageddon? Are you afraid?
1Jo 4:18 There is no fear in love, but perfect love throws fear outside, because fear exercises a restraint. Indeed, he that is under fear has not been made perfect in love. – NWT
Hebrews 13:6 (Amplified Bible) – So we take comfort and are encouraged and confidently and boldly say, The Lord is my Helper; I will not be seized with alarm [I will not fear or dread or be terrified]. What can man do to me?
If 1 John 4:8 says “God is love,” then shouldn’t love, not fear, be our motivation to serve Jehovah? Are you serving Jehovah in a certain way because you are afraid/fearful of being destroyed in Armageddon?
Truth be told JW’s are as confused as ever with these constant changes in doctrine.Ironic really , considering that they constantly harp on about the supposed”confusion” in Christendom . The great thing about the new teaching regarding the FDS is that Witnesses are en mass , beginning to seriously question the organisation and the authority of the GB for the first time in the societies history . We are shortly going to see the mass exodus of members from the organisation – watch and see !
Hi TY;
Hope this helps. Rev 1:10 has John taken to the Lord’s day. October 1914. And brother Russell lived for two more years. Was he annointed by God? Without a doubt I believe he was. And many who were either still living or passed to death before him.
In Vol IV page 158 he referred to the Church in these words,”This class is described and blessedly comforted in Psalms 91 and 46.”
Note the following on page 613 “-namely, during the Lord’s presence, and at the end of the gathering of the elect-our Lord, the great Servant of his people, will make choice of one channel for dipensing the meat in due season, though other channels or “fellow-servants”will be used in bringing the food to the “household.” But the servant is merely a steward, a to be removed at any moment, should he fail to fully and dully acknowledge in every particular, the Master,- the great Servant of God,and his people,-“the Messenger of the covenant,”-Christ.”
“he may continue,anhousehold of faith with things new and old,-meat in due season-to the end.”
Did you notice he believed in new and old? Why is that immportant? page 614,”Our Lord’s prophecy,like those of the others, is veiled in symbolic and parabolic language, and for the same purpose;-that”none of the wicked should understand,”but the meek,honest and faithful of God’s people only,- in God’s due time and way.”
So he believed in new and old light, and that God decides when and how, but only for God’s people.
So a person should ask themselves.
1. Do the believers I associate with believe in new and old light?
2. Has not God always decided what he wants to be known? Pr 4:13:18; Amos 3:7
3. Only his people will understand? Daniel 12:9,10.
I as a JW can agree with the Pastor. We study the Bible which has been around for a long time, and yet we do get better understanding from God as time goes on. Something he has always done. And it is clear when for example you show someone his name is in the Hebrew Scriptures over 6,000 times and the trinity not once. And yet the majority of Christians believe in the trinity.
So you are aware, the Pastor taught that certain things would happen at 1914. Many fell away when that did not happen. Others like the Pastor saw their mistake and continued moving forward.
Maybe you remember when Jesus talked about eating his fleah and blood and a bunch of his followers quit following. Likewise the way they latched on to Jesus and then didn’t have the conviction to remain showed they were not worthy of becoming Kings and priests and they were their because it was easy to latch on. But that line knocked them out. But not the faithful.
Likewise, WWI broke out they did not go to heaven, but hard times came upon them, and they fell away.
Note the Pastors words, Oct 1,1916 Author’s Foreword,”the light has grown still clearer.”
Those who left Jesus, and those who left the channel being used in the Pastor’s day, and those who leave the channel God uses today, will miss out on alot of wonderful blessings.
Who was dispensing the food in 200 C.E. OR 1000 C.E. OR 1500 C.E.? When would it start? How could it start in 1890 C.E when the Day of the Lord had not come yet. Remember The questions asked to Jesus? Mat 24:3? The things that would take place? That started after Oct 1914. So just like the Christians in 200,1000,1500 and brother Russell’s day, they had the Bible. But in the Lord’s day at some point the FS would began dispensing the food.
Remember the Pastor’s teaching? God decides when. Remember the Pastor’e teaching? The wicked will not understand. Remember the Pastor’s teaching? New light, a clearer path.
Henry
Jerome;
You might want to read chapter 19 of Revelation. In that chapter you might see if you find the small and the great. Actually two different groups of small and great.
Then consisder Revelation 11:18 and view the small and the great.
Then view Revelation 20:12
So lets start with 11:18–“nations became wrathful,and your own wrath came.” When will this be?
Continue–“and the appointed time for the dead to be judged,” When will this be?
Continue–“and to give their reward to your slaves the prophets and to the holy ones and to those fearing your name, the small and the great,” When will this be? Also did you notice some different groups there? So the question again, are these different times or the same time?
Continue–“and to bring to ruin those ruining the earth.” When will this be?
1. Near future? 2. End of 1000 years?
Now Rev 19:5,”Be praising our God, all you his slaves, who fear him, the samll ones and the great.” Vers 6 shows God has begun to rule as king. Also Rev 11:17 shows he began ruling as king. Back to 19:18 shows disaster for,”kings, military commanders,” “strong men,horses and those seated upon them,and the fleshy parts of all, freemen as well as of slaves and of small ones and great.” When will this be?
Rev 20:12,”And I saw the dead,” When will this be? Continue-“the great and the small,” These small and great can’t be the ones at Rev 11:18;19:5. Why is that? Because they did not die, the group of smalland great. Rev. 19:1,2,”Praise Jah you people.” Doesn’t said dead people does it? Why praise him? Continue–“The salvation and the glory and the power belong to God, because his judgements are true and righteous. For he has executed judgement upon the great harlot who corrupted the earth with her fornication, and he has avenged the blood of his slaves at her hand.”
Jerome, this takes takes place before the 1000 years.
But what about the small and great dead at Rev 20:12? Well, read 13- through 15 also. Picture the dead be raised at the beginning of the 1000 years, new scrolls leading them to perfection. Now when Satan is released and misleads a bunch they are rhrown into the lake of fire, the second death. Then death and Hades are thrown in and those not found in the book of life.
Yes it seems simle for salvation. Could God have come up with a better plan than becoming a JW?
If we are going to challenge God, then was his plan bad before the flood? 2 Pe 2:5 shows Noah a preacher. What do you think he said? Something like, God should have a better plan then preach and obey. Or get on the ark and be saved it is the only way. Very simple isn’t it? How many listened? First we must realize the preacher himself listened, and then we find seven others who listened.
They who didn’t get on probaly said things like, couldn’t God come up with a better plan? Why did God pick you Noah? Why should I listen to you Noah? Don’t you sin also Noah? We don’t go along with the wicked Noah, we try to live good lives. You have been building that piece of junk for decades, so where is this end?
And I could go on and on and on with excuses. But God really does want people to get saved. Did he not send his Son? Did not his Son say, it will be like the days of Noah? Did not his Son say, the road to life is cramped and few on it? Did not the Son say, the roads leading to destructions are wide and many finding it?
Why is it so simple to find those roads leading to destruction?
“Hi Friends.
I have a question with regards to the latest WT July 4th article paragraph 12.
Question? The faithful and wise servant.
The latest WT 2013 July 4th article paragraph 12 ( please read) makes it clear that C.T. Russell was not whom the governing body up to now has claimed he was.
Charles Taze Russell (February 16, 1852 – October 31, 1916
Russell was NEVER part of the Slave as he died before 1919.
So that leaves a question namely what is our house build on or where did we get the fundamental bricks from if it was NOT given thru the faithful and wise servant.
The only way to find out is to dig a bit.
A genuine Christian should have no problem doing that.
The Finished Mystery By JW.
Through St. John the Lord Jesus revealed the fact that the Church would be developed during seven distinct periods, or epochs; and that for each of these epochs Ho would have a special angel, or messenger, to serve the other members of the Body. It follows, then, that the messenger to the last, or Laodicean, epoch would declare the Presence of the Lord and the time of the Harvest of the Gospel Age. The great Master laid special emphasis on the importance of the messenger to the seventh, or Laodicean, period of the Church, saying that such an one would be “”a faithful and wise servant, whom his Lord would make ruler over all His Household, to give them meat in due season.””
Those consecrated Christians who have read and fully appreciated the Truth as contained in the preceding six volumes of STUDIES IN THE SCRIPTURES readily sea and agree that Charles Taze Russell was the messenger of the Church of Laodicea. In the mind of every one who believes the Bible the evidence set forth in this volume will establish that fact beyond the question of a doubt.
http://www.strictlygenteel.co.uk/finishedmystery/fmtitles.html
In 1909, in an unsigned article, the Watch Tower mentioned that the “”application to us of Matthew 24:45″” had come “”some fourteen years ago””, or about 1895. The article went on to say “”the Society’s literature was the channel through which the Lord sent them practically all that they know about the Bible and the Divine purposes.”” [emphasis added][28]
The prevailing view among Bible Students that Russell was “”the faithful and wise servant”” of Jesus’ parable,[29] was reiterated in the Watch Tower a few weeks after Russell’s death in 1916:
Thousands of the readers of Pastor Russell’s writings believe that he filled the office of “”that faithful and wise servant,”” and that his great work was giving to the Household of Faith meat in due season. His modesty and humility precluded him from openly claiming this title, but he admitted as much in private conversation.[
In 1879 Charles Taze Russell began the publication of THE WATCH TOWER, of which he was the sole editor as long as he remained on earth. THE WATCH TOWER was, and is, the first and only journal declaring the presence of the Lord Jesus. Pastor Russell being the messenger to the Laodicean Church, and occupying the position of the Lord’s special servant to give the Household of Faith meat in due season, it was to be expected that he would bring forth from the Lord’s great “”Storehouse”” the needed spiritual food for the Church, in harmony with
That the Lord pronounces His indignation and wrath against all such Babylonish systems and marks their titter destruction in a Time of Trouble such as the world has never known and will never again know; and that the earthly creature made prominent therein above all others is the messenger of the Laodicean Church — “”that wise and faithful servant”” of the Lord — CHARLES TAZE RUSSELL.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faithful_and_discreet_slave
*** w95 5/15 p. 17 Part 1—Flashes of Light—Great and Small ***
Early Flashes of Light in Modern Times
6 One fact that stands out prominently in connection with those Jehovah used to bring this gradual increase of spiritual light is that they took no credit to themselves. The attitude of C. T. Russell, first president of the Watch Tower Society, was that the Lord was pleased to use their humble talents. Regarding epithets his enemies were prone to use, Brother Russell strongly made it known that he had never met a “Russellite” and that there was no such thing as “Russellism.” All credit went to God.
7 Judging by the results, there can be no doubt that Jehovah’s holy spirit was directing the endeavors of Brother Russell and those associated with him. They gave evidence of being identified with the faithful and discreet slave. Though many clergymen of the time professed to believe that the Bible was God’s inspired Word and that Jesus was the Son of God, they subscribed to false, Babylonish doctrines, such as the Trinity, the immortality of the human soul, and eternal torment. In keeping with Jesus’ promise, it truly was due to the holy spirit that the humble efforts of Brother Russell and his associates caused truth to shine forth as never before. (John 16:13) Those anointed Bible Students gave proof that they were indeed part of the faithful and discreet slave class, whose commission it is to provide spiritual food for the Master’s domestics. Their efforts were a great aid in the gathering of the anointed ones.
8 It is remarkable to see how greatly Jehovah, by means of holy spirit, favored these early Bible Students with flashes of light.
The watchtower has consistently stated that Russell was the Faithful and discreet slave at the time and that the Light flashed true him.
Now in July 2013 that is no longer the case.
That then raises the question. If we believe that 1914 was the end of the Gentile times who and where did we, Jehovah’s witnesses get that idea from seeing that it was not channeled thru the Faithful and discreet slave as that Body did not come in to existence until 1919.
Repeat.
Charles Taze Russell (February 16, 1852 – October 31, 1916
Hence Russell was NEVER part of the Slave as he died before 1919.
Can somebody explain that please.
Regards.
Ty
Armageddon is about the destruction of Satan, his angels and the what he will have established on the earth after Christs 1000 year kingdom ends: A Beastly World System of government over mankind.
The world of mankind after Christs future 1000 year kingdom ends, will be as Adam: One in front of it’s Creator; in no need of a intermediator or Savior. Christs 1000 year kingdom will have restored all of mankind to that state.
After the 1000 years, Satan is released from the Abyss. What does he see? A restored mankind but with no king (Christ) over them. All of mankind will worship the One True God until Satan misleads the world at his un-Abyssing.
Armageddon has nothing to do with the destruction of this present world. This present world will be destroyed by not in Armageddon. It’s destruction comes at the hand of Christ himself when he is coronated king. He will not share his kingdom with any of the existing kingdoms of earth. Therefore, he destroys them all to make way for his 1000 year definite kingdom over the earth.
Armageddon is different. It is battle over the maintenance of Satan’s Beastly World Government as opposed to what is to come: God’s Kingdom.
After Christ’s kingdom ends, Satan embellishes upon what it will take Christ 1000 to establish: A paradise earth. Satan’s Beastly system will look in every way like what Christ established. It will be “peaceful and secure” for all who support (worship) it and it’s image. The supporters will not want it to go away or be overthrown by any power.
Satan will, no doubt, make it appear that the coming of God’s “indefinite” kingdom will be an invasion to remove their prosperous and secure life.
It is during Satan’s Beastly system that the “Good News of the Kingdom” message is preached. No human will preach the Good News. One angel will. I believe that angel is Michael. (Rev 14:6)
That Good News of the Kingdom will be preached to that misled world and expose Satan’s Beast for what it is. Satan’s False Prophet will counter the proclamation of the angels message with it’s own lying utterances. This is what Armageddon is.
Those who do not listen to the False Prophet, but respond to the angels proclamation of the Good News, will be looked upon as dissidents and will not be allowed to flourish and prosper as they once did in within Satan’s Beastly rule. These persons will be few.
The preaching of the Good News of the Kingdom by the angel has a purpose: To inform those misled by Satan in those future days that it is God’s Kingdom – not Satan’s – that is their inheritance. The preaching of the Good News is a reminder to them to repent and go back to what they were taught under Christ’s kingdom that God’s Kingdom MUST come and it is the God under THAT kingdom that they MUST worship and obey. The preaching of the Good News of the Kingdom will be a warning that if they do not, they will perish (go out of existence). That preaching of the Good News serves as a Witness to the world in those days. A witness how? Because it will be Michael the Archangel who will have taught them under his Kingdom of 1000 years. He can be the only true witness.
Armageddon has nothing to do with Jehovah’s Witnesses or any “religious organization.” Religion has nothing to do with it and their will be no religion in those days during or after Christs 1000 year kingdom ends. It is about the “individual” and his/her faith, resolve, endurance when the Good News message is preached and Satan’s False Prophet utterances are preached. It is about which message one chooses to believe.
Another reason why “an angel” MUST preach the Good News of the Kingdom is because no human will be qualified to preach it. ALL of the earth in those future days will be misled by Satan when he is released. (Rev 20:6-8)
You people are way off base with this and you are in captivity to a “religious system” that is at the present time keeping people locked into it. Unable to see a much bigger picture.
Jesus said nothing about JWs or any other religious organization surviving Armageddon. You have no clue as to what Armageddon is.
Many of the publications of the Watchtower, misleadingly portray buildings being toppled and things being blown up and people running for their lives. This misleads persons into thinking that THIS WORLD is being destroyed.
Armageddon is nothing like that; not even close. Yet, this is what people are being served. Being served error.
You do not listen to Christ and refuse to do so. You listen to yourselves and amass about you your own teachers and make yourselves feel safe and secure in what you believe Armageddon to be.
Who will survive Armageddon? The answer is simple and uncomplicated. All one has to do is listen to Christ. And, what did he say? He says at Matthew 10:22:
“You will be hated by everyone because of me, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved.”
“The one who stands firm” has no religious title or connotation.
It is too bad many of you are listening to men and organizations and not to Christ in this regard. He has told us who will survive. He said nothing about people of particular religious organizations. YOU do this all by yourselves.
Until you remove before you your fancy religious titles that you give yourselves, and remove from before you men such as Charles Taze Russell, J.F. Rutherford, and remove from before you the religious organizations – none of which God sent you – and PLACE BEFORE YOU the one God DID send, His Son and listen to him.
Why are you listening to men and organizations? (Luke 9:35)
Jerome hello this is Jacqueline. Much of what you are writing should perhaps have been put on the JW.Org site as you are talking to the watchtower org of JWitnesses. You have us confused with them.I conclude this from your reference to the armageddon scenes in the watchtower publications including the children books also. Just thought I would make you aware that we are not Jwitnesses. Take Care.
Why a charged issue? Vol I page 308,”Thus it is presented by the prophets as Jehovah’s work to set up Christ’s dominion.”
Vol II page 100,”So, in this “Day of Jehovah,”the “Day of Trouble,”.”
Vol III page 45,”The Tabernacle, in the centre of the camp, had in its “Most Holy” apartment a manifestation of Jehovah’s presence as their King, whence by supernatual means they received instruction for the proper administration of rheir affairs as a nation.”
Down a little further,”communion with Jehovah.”
Could go on and on with the Studies showing how Pastor Russell used the heavenly Father’s name. But were you aware that copies of the Hebrew Scriptures did not have God’s name in them? Were you aware that there was no actual Hebrew Scriptures available, the orginals? Likewise, no original of the Greek Scriptures.
Logically, if man took it out of the 39, but we know it was there, do you think that man took it out of the 27?
Henry – We can only speculate that man removed the name Jehovah out of 27 NT books. How could we know that this was done? Where is the evidence? NT manuscripts are much more abundant and closer in time to the original texts than OT manuscripts. I think there is good value in using the name Jehovah in the OT to remove Trinity confusion.
To Peter k.;
I see you use the name Jehovah. Is it because Pastor Russell did? Or, for another reason?
My asking is some Bible Students refer to His name as a hybrid. Yet they follow Pastor Russell’s teachings.
Some use Yahweh, others God and Lord but not Jehovah.
This may be to touchy a subject for you and if you would rather not answer, thats fine.
Henry
Henry – I realize that this is a very strong and emotional subject with some of the friends. I often use “Jehovah” as may of the visitors on our site are JWs and most comfortable with that name. However, I am very comfortable with Yahweh, God or LORD. I don’t think God is offended if we use one name or the another. In the New Testament, we have no proof of Yahweh or Jehovah. We only find God (theos) or LORD. So I really just don’t get why this is such an emotionally charged issue, other than perhaps that those with a JW background are or were taught to think this way. What scripture in the Bible tells us that it is a sin to not use His proper name when referring to Him? I just don’t get it???
The early part of Revelation shows that the Bride will not even be around when Armageddon breaks out. The Bride will be Raptured and then a 7 year Tribulation will occur upon this Earth. The Battle of Harmageddon is between literal Nations who are poised right now to attack Israel. That is when Yeshua will return to do battle on behalf of his literal people the Israelites and all those who accept Yeshua as Saviour during the 7 year Tribulation.
The Antichrist will have been doing his evil deeds during the final 3.5 years of the Trib and then he will turn on Israel. The Nation of Israel is still the major part of the covenant with Abraham and the Lord has not cancelled it as many claim. The Church has not replaced Israel, only grafted in, Romans 11
Pastor David Hall. Thanks. I agree with you that natural Israel is still a part of Jehovah’s plans and purposes, as well as that part of Armageddon relates to a great attachck on Israel from many other nations (i.e. Ezek 38 2o, Zech 14, etc.) However, I do disagree with you about a future 3 1/2 year and 7 year period. If you and many other Christians are correct, then the Reformers were wrong in identifying the Papacy as that great Antichrist system and the Counter Reformation views of the Catholic church have won the day. What proof from scripture is there for a future seven year tribulation? I believe the prophecies that you will likely reference refer to the 1260 year period of Papal civil power and persecution of the True Church from 539 AD to 1799 AD.
Here is a link listing many Reformers and pre-Reformation teachers (i.e. John Wycliff) who identified the Antichrist with the Papacy. http://christiantrumpetsounding.com/Antichrist/Reformation%20Views.htm
and also that a prophetic DAY equals a literal YEAR in Bible prophecy: http://www.christsecondpresence.com/When/Day%20for%20Year%20Chart.pdf
Find more about the supposed 7 year tribulation here: http://christiantrumpetsounding.com/7%20Yr%20Trib/sub%207%20yr%20tribulation.htm
This article from the Watchtower magazine reiterates that the only way to survive Armageddon is to come to Jehovah’s organization (the Watchtower Society).There are thousands of references in the Society’s publications to this very topic with the intent to instill fear into their loyal followers.
Rodrick – Thanks. Nice to hear from you. A scripture that comes to my mind is 2 Peter 3:9 (NASV), “The Lord is… patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.” If Jehovah does not wish for any to perish, couldn’t he have come up with a better plan than has been proposed by the JW Organization and the Denominational Churches to save mankind?
Yes. God has not given us the spirit of fear/cowardice; so who is the guilty party who does? I am not afraid of eternal torture, and I will not substitute Armageddon for it.