Welcome all Anointed Jehovah’s Witnesses and those who would like to talk with you!
Anointed Talk is a place for the Anointed of Jehovah’s Witnesses to talk to each other and for others of us to get a chance to talk to you. And why not? We have been told that no one else is listening to you. Is this true? The The Watchtower, 5/15/00, p. 11 says, “anointed Witnesses of Jehovah have been blessed with insight, enabling them to understand…” (See complete quote below). Yet to what avail is this special insight? Does the Governing Body care what the Anointed have to say? Do they ask for the opinion and spiritual insight of the anointed? Sadly, we are getting reports from Anointed JWs, indicating they are being disrespected, ridiculed and made fun of. They tell us that they are even being discouraged from partaking of the memorial. Is it true that the elders and others just don’t believe that those who claim they are anointed really are? That they do not respect insights of those claiming to be anointed? Are the anointed who express a different point of view labeled an Apostate? Is what we are hearing true? Is this the norm or just unusual examples coming our way?
Why doesn’t the Governing Body consult the anointed? Why aren’t they interested in their opinion? Why is the Watchtower writing department adding more writers that are not anointed? Are the Anointed a perceived threat to the power structure that must be diminished? After all, shouldn’t JWs being looking to the anointed for spiritual guidance as opposed to Elders, Circuit Overseers and District Overseers? Is the JW power structure trying to minimize and belittle their influence? Is this really all just about power and who is in control?
We are not trying to incite the Anointed to rise up and rebel and fight the system. The Lord’s anointed are a humble and meek people. Yet we understand that if anyone expresses a difference of opinion, whether anointed or not, they are in danger of being labeled an apostate. So, how then can the anointed be in any position to provide spiritual insights. If it is only to tell everyone else to follow the organization, then couldn’t any JW member do that? So then of what value are the anointed in the JW Organization? It only seems to make sense that elders and leaders in the JW organization would desire, in humility, to look to the anointed for spiritual guidance.
What do you think? What is really going on. Let us know what you think. This is a place to talk. We want to hear from everyone, but especially from the anointed ones, whether presently JWs or whether you have been driven out of the organization. Please enlighten us and tell us the truth of what is happening. Here you can talk to each other and help each other out.
Full quote: “Daniel 12:4 states: “As for you, O Daniel, make secret the words and seal up the book, until the time of the end. Many will rove about, and the true knowledge will become abundant.” Much of what Daniel wrote was made secret and sealed up to human understanding for centuries. But what about today?
6 In this time of the end, many faithful Christians have ‘roved about’ in the pages of God’s Word, the Bible. The result? With Jehovah’s blessing on their efforts, true knowledge has become abundant. For instance, anointed Witnesses of Jehovah have been blessed with insight, enabling them to understand that Jesus Christ became heavenly King in the year 1914. In keeping with the apostle’s words recorded at 2 Peter 1:19-21, such anointed ones and their loyal companions are ‘paying attention to the prophetic word’ and are absolutely certain that this is the time of the end.” – “The Watchtower, 5/15/00, p. 11.
Hank,
Have you taken note of what God says of the twelve tribes of Israel? “ Ezekiel 3:7
“They are the most hardheaded, and hard hearted of all the peoples.” Have you ever wondered why God took the worst, and not the best? He could have taken them because he wanted a people that would still serve him after going through what the world would throw their way, or, because he wanted to show, even the worst would serve him, or, he had to have a people that would take the life of his son Jesus. (Genesis 3:15.) If you recall, the Romans as hard as they were did not want to kill Jesus. I don’t think there is one Christian today that would harm Jesus…it had to be a very hardheaded, and hard hearted people to do that.
I thank God I am not from the tribe of Israel.
To anointed1 and hope with Jacqueline’s okay;
Was not going to post and when I read your first post to day I did not respond. After looking again your second was addressed to me, and the way I think Jaqueline is she would okay it. I don’t few her as mean as a few times she may have been, and I rightly may have deserved it. Plus I am trying to work on 12 suggested rules by the Society.
I actually can relate to how you feel ion terns of it is all ways white. When I was a Catholic I all ways felt hurt when I read the Hebrew Scriptures–Then Old Testament. Why was that? Because they were God’s people and no matter how I looked at it, I was not an Israelite. As a matter of fact, I just today received a letter from an Israelite friend. And last night watch a hour show on the escape from a death camp by the Jews. Out of 600, 200 escaped. The bad news 150 of those got caught and put to death. A few of the survivors still living in 2013 met over there for the last time. My emotions in thinking about that movie right now stirs my feeling a great deal. The camp was in Poland.
When I read the Bible I felt left out, because it was Israel this and Israel that, but there was no way I would be one. I was a Gentile mutt. It seemed unfair, but I don’t make the rules. Looking back with a better view of things one can see that God will allow those who want to be found by him be found by him. John 4:222-24; 1 Chron. 28:9,10. He shows by saying call me, and I will answer. And what does he add to that? I will tell you wonderful and marvelous things that you know nothing about.
Jacqueline probably remembers me saying I had a anointed black sister stay at my home for a few weeks. I have known 3 white ones but never had them in my home. To me we are all brothers, regardless of which sheep, all in same fold.
As to your things brought up, I not going to argue them. Maybe I see one or more of them myself. Maybe I have seen on since 1977. But the Bible says to wait on Jehovah. Why is that point maybe something that can be put on a burner?
Remember Baruck, I think I spelled it wrong. His life was spared, but a man with a message from God told him, quit seeking great things. No one knows what the great things were. Why did God leave that out? In the future that city and area would not be found. Nothing there! So what ever great thing he was seeking, it was gone. Only his life was spared.
So God did not tell him, but God had someone tell him, and he listened. The prophet who was told to deliver a message but not to stop and eat after doing so. Did a fear inspiring work, went and preached the message. On way home refused a free meal and continued on. But a prophet caught him, and smooth talked him into a meal. Next day his sons came to the old prophet and said, we found the prophet, he was killed by a lion. I really believe he will get a resurrection because of some later info in the Bible. But he failed to act in harmony of what he should do. I would love to post a thank you I received from a person who had problems as a new anointed. Whether he made it or not I will probably never know. From another country and because of problems with money and computer we have lost touch.
Jaqueline would have to give me permission to do it for you. The person name will not be revealed.
As for me when new understanding comes to the forefront, I read Is 48:6.
Take care
Hank
Hank, I am so sorry for coming across as mean. I consult with the admin of this site. Our convention is coming up this weekend and the admin are the cordinators and have been very busy. I have my role to keep a watch on things pending or if we have a question about a pending comment I go back and forth with Br. Peter daily. There are Elders that look and see everything that we write every day. They are learning about JW and will leave us to talk.
Dupin is a BS elder and an xjw. He watches and reads what is on this site. I do admit I have my senior moments. We also get calls text etc from others that want to talk. We have had posters blitz us at night and some JW apologists will tie up the site with trinity stuff just to keep xjw from commenting. Active witnesses like yourself never stay on the site unless they are apologists for the society or one of the internet young ones appointed by the society to watch this site. We have ones living inside Bethel that send other sites information and they pass it on to me. We know sometimes when an apologist comes on, I don’t think you are one however. I think your mind is coming awake and you are thinking. The talk I posted wasn’t aimed at you it happened to hit my desk at that time and I post because there are people that use our site for informational purposes.
As I stated you were shifting this site toward the JW view and Br. Chuck was trying to level it out. I am not so diplomatic perhaps because of my JW upbringing but I am trying. Maybe the weekend convention coming up will help me with this. I want to ask your forgiveness if I offended you it was not my intention. But the site is monitored by BS elders.
What you would like to post would have to have the name of the person removed and get their permission. Br. Peter will push it in moderation and consider it’s content. So post, I will look for it and we will all be together this weekend and we normally have a little discussion on site guildlines.
Also we can’t keep skipping over the question of race. I felt it should be addressed since our dear sister mentioned it as well as it being Jerome Harris mantra (lol).
I want to tell you an experience when I serve at our state fair in Indianapolis, In. It is funny. Black JW and other Black people hug and kiss me when they see me. Sometimes they go get other blacks and exclaim, I didn’t know it had black people! I find that funny, but they have returned the next year even to get the Studies In The Scriptures. My little ecclias has two black xjw elders and me along with the other brothers. We have absolutely no problems and I feel the love and concern we all have for each other. We keep up and will help each other.
You can do that when there is no central control. It is not lorded over by the servant the elders, we are free to show christian love whenever without getting permission or looking in the flock book on how to handle it. Sorry to be so long winded but i am sure Br. Peter will chime in on this to let you know you don’t have to ask me permission, if it is out of order we will just unapprove. LOL (smile) Take Care my friend, Jacqueline
The Bible was built from the Scrolls by false religions…many scrolls not used in the Bible, are the one’s used when Jesus was on earth. Now why would false religions leave them out?
As any one can see, God keeps bringing them before us.
To Anointed 1;
Thank you for your reply. I guess Heb. 12:22-24 is where you are at.
Lets take a quick look at the 8 billion people living.
About 2 Billion claim to be Christian.
Going to eliminate the other 6 Billion because the ransom means nothing to them.
The majority of many different ones believe they are going to heaven or a hell fire. In other words join us or burn.
Although you know JW,s beliefs it is for the other sheep to try and make the great crowd found at 7:9-17 in Revelation. With a large resurrection of the dead for many. Not all!
The Bible Students believe all will make it into the new earth and heaven. All dead resurrected. One clause though. Heb. 6:4-6 a small number will fall and thus not be there. Don’t confuse that with their belief of ones who fall short of the heavenly prize of immortality. They believe that all those will make the great crowd in heaven, who will assist the faithful anointed with Christ but will not be clothed with immortality. Then all the people who ever lived on earth.
P.S. JW,s believe it will be like the days of Noah, and those who didn’t wash their robes in the blood of the Lamb will be forever removed. Rev. 7:9-17; 19:18-21
So lets look at the three basic groups.
1. You have a soul that never dies-immortal. Heaven or hell fire. Lots of them groups out there.
2. JW,s The anointed and the other sheep. Anointed taken to heaven before Armageddon, the great crowd of other sheep come through it into the millennium.
3. Heaven, heaven and earth. All but few that did Heb 6:4-6 will find life. First heaven-life immortal. Second heaven-life like angels mortal. Third group life till end of 1,000 years and if pass test-life on earth as a mortal with good chance of living forever.
As for you, the best I can help you out with, because I am sure, correct me if I am wrong, is none of those three groups meet your criteria. So how can I help you?
Do a search for anointed ones. They have a site with I believe all anointed ones, you will probably fit, but I could be wrong.
As to what teach and why, I am not sure.
As for me I have met I think about four anointed ones, never have been to New York, and never met a member of the FDS class. Two of the four have finished their early course both dear sisters. The other sister is doing wonderful and the brother I think is doing well. So will I ever meet the other 143,996 anointed? Very, very unlikely. Most are in heaven and I can’t find a verse that shows their presence back on earth.
But what an opportunity to meet Abel, Noah’s family and so many other faithful ones.
So by being a JW I do face the roaring Lion, The Devil! And the possibility of losing my life is there.
Or become a BS and be guaranteed life and a chance in the new world.
Or go and get my immortal soul back and chance heaven or hell fire.
But you added a forth, join the online anointed.
Which group is staying way, away, with the load of valuable goods?
Hi Hank I thank you for sincerely wanting to help me your efforts are very much appreciated.
I believe your final estimation is about where I’m at, in the spirit of Heb 12:22-24 I am desirous to meet with spiritually like minded to be encouraged and to encourage others especially ones of anointed.
Sad to say I have to look outside of JW’S because I am simply not welcome there and have never really been welcome there as anointed and as a member of a collective active slave class.
I hope that in turn you can accept help I’m offering to you.
You mentioned other sheep. I commented, (about 1999 ) during WT study, I asked in effect to whom did Jesus’ s words at john 10:16 apply for best part of 2,000 yrs prior to 1935. Answer clearly must be – to all anointed gathered after 36 c.e – gentile Christians. I hastened to add we could apply to earthly group in secondary sense.
I was brought before a judicial committee because of this comment.
It is not for me to take credit for reasoning as I did on John 10:16, the spirit taught me this.
One day Hank , you will see this taught by the organisation. They will teach 144 is a symbolic number and they will teach anointed are an active collective slave with GB as spokesman (and GB also domestics).
When these monumental soon to occurr changes happen I hope and pray that you stand with Jah’s organisation and really appreciate the value of these goods.
To Anointed 1;
Which person would you hire to drive your goods to another location?
1.That narrow pass is no problem, I can get to within 5 inches of it and have no problem.
2. That narrow pass is no problem I can get within 3 inches and have no problem.
3. If I drive your load, I will stay as far away from that edge AS is possible.
Which one would you hire to transport your valuable goods?
Better yet, who do you think was right? Korah, along with 250 men. Nub. 16:16-18
At first it looks like they are worshipping Jehovah. But, was that the case.
Note the difference. More burning his own fire holder. Less burning his fire holder.
So the big question, would the more or the least be on Jehovah God’s side?
And why should a worshipper of Jehovah God not allow a certain teaching to hinder them?
My expierance. Book read in 70,s by me. But in early 80,s noticed what appeared to be a mistake in a footnote. A year or so later when being questioned by two elders I was asked if there was anything I disagreed with about the organization. I said no, other then this part. A year later a clearer light came out and it was not understood more accurately.
Moral of the story for an anointed one or other sheep. Continue serving the Great God Jehovah, remain with His people. And if because you feel you are left out, in that the GB gets to much attention then the remaining little flock, pray on it. Read Korah’s account over and over, and ask your self. If I am to rule as king and priest with Jesus Christ in heaven, do I make a good fit if I disagree with my brothers?
Jer. 33:3 gives everyone who wants to, to talk to God. But Is. 1:15 shows one must be coming for the right reason.
Another set of verses that may help you is Mt. 25 where certain ones are given more. Ask yourself what is the more? Fame and wealth? Why according to 1969 money values Solomon had over 25 million dollars. The GB has to handle the things Jesus gave him to handle and it is far more than 25 million dollars.
When we look how Jehovah did things with Israel, using less to handle the bigger responsibilities do we say, yea, that was then, and I would have accepted it, but now it is different?
Come back brother get strong, don’t ride the goods three inches from the cliff, Satan would love that. One small turn and poof, he has you. And Heb 6:4-6 shows what happens then.
Hank
Hello Hank , thanks for comment.
If you put it like that I would choose 3. If you put this question to the GB im sure they would also choose option 3.However actions speak louder than words and it’s clear to me that the GB by their actions have chosen no.2
The GB look as though they are worshipping Jah acceptably , but are they?
Who really is the FDS? All anointed around the globe are the FDS not just the GB. They teach this but do not , never have, really accepted this truth. They have in actual fact rebelled against it for decades. By setting up themselves as the FDS the GB have offered illegitimate fire, they have had no legal right whatsoever to set themselves up as FDS.
The GB contine to stick to false belief of themselves as FDS in this way they are carrying all who follow them very close to the edge.
Jehovah will act to correct this gross error and when he does brother I hope and pray that you will stand firm.
I am a brother of Christ still in female form.
I am joined in Spirit with Jah’s heavenly organisation and that is the most important thing. I’m sure one day the rest of Jah’s earthly people will be in sync with him too and I look forward to that time ,just as our master and leader prayed , when we will be fittly United as one in the same line of thought and there will be no division amongst us.
anointed1, you are a female like me!!! I couldn’t have known it by your comments, I like. Take Care Jacqueline
Hi Jacqueline, I am also like yourself , a woman of colour. Herein lies what I estimated a minor dilemma as one new to JW’S in 1990. I did not fit the WT picture of anointed as elderly and white.
I pushed this minor to the back of my mind, after all I had found much more important truth.
As I pressed on to Christian maturity I began to realise the idea of anointed as elderly/white was a gross error.
I saw clearly then what WT published in May 2007, that there was no basis for 1935 date as close of gathering of anointed.
What basis did JW’S have for portraying them all as white. Rev 5:9,10.
When I looked back at history of bible students it was clear to me why Jah used people in USA area of the world.
USA would have only relative involvement in two world wars, would maintain democratic freedom to pursue religion and would have wealth to support preaching and education programme. It’s drawback – it’s racial history.
I feel sadly that the early bible students failed to keep on guard in this respect and the organisation of JW’s continued what they promoted and to this day the history of the organisation acts as a divide.
Look at JW illustrations. Jesus in heavenly role is portrayed as white, his bride is white, myriad upon myriad of angels – all white, 144 all white, so called FDS only till recent times has man of colour – why it took so long to have a black man on GB?
Bible students belief of only 144 white people go to heaven is the root cause of all
anointed1, thank you for this comment from your heart.
This question of Race has been a tool since Noah, to divide and conquer the Holy Ones by Satan. Israel divided along tribal and whether or not one converted, not race. (also Moses wife).
I refuse to let it work in my personal life having had a white husband and so many nephews, sister inlaws that are married to my relatives etc, that we are just a garden. I live among Jews.
I am so glad you shared these thoughts here. Yes I am a woman of colour my grandparents are children of slaves. I grew up under extreme racial prejudice in the South of the US. I never knew until I was a teenager that there were White Bible Students or Jehovah Witnesses except in New York. When integration of the races came in the sixties, I WAS SHOCKED AND APPALLLED that not only were there white witness all over Birmingham Alabama, all around me BUT they stood like soldiers at a convention door in Birmingham and wouldn’t let my DEAR Mother, me and a few other black witnesses in. They said the society said it. Churches were embracing the integration and holding hands with blacks but the JW society said no. I am 65 and have never forgotten the beat down look on my mother’s face. As late as 1971 my brother discovered he had a heart problem at a young age after trying to integrate Decatur Alabama. Witnesses in the South found out we didn’t love each other like we preached it was just a lie.
All anointed that I had ever seen (most of cong) were Black. But the dejected brow of the brothers when they were convinced that the door had closed effected me as a black girl. You see these men had been witnesses before 1925 even, but the society made them stop partaking. My mother and some of them partook secretly at first at homes of the few BS left, then later after all were gone in the back B room of the KH. This practice may still go on in the Black cong. We had our own system until the takeover and manifestation, in full power, of the GB around 1990.
The Bible Students believe the great crowd also is a heavenly group. I believe the Tabernacle temple keepers other than the Priest are foreshadowed and thru a great crowd will perform these duties.
Do I believe the great crowd are underachievers? No, I do not, I believe the Father will choose his son’s Bride from among the faithful. What his strict criteria is, he does not go into detail down to the person. I choose not to speculate or add.
Only the witnesses under Rutherford not the Bible Students believe the great crowd is earthly. I lived thru some of the changes. We studied SITS and older books in our book study as the society didn’t really care what the black community did until around the middle 1950 when many rebelled against the blood transfusion institution. My father was one. That is a new doctrine, being fazed out here.
Here we call the one GB member of colour a token. He has sat in my home for luncheon when a CO.
I agree with you the US was established as a religiously free country so it was a suitable place. Segregation meant all pictures would be white also. Lynchings would have occurred in the South if the portrayal was any different. I think of God as LIGHT not a colour and his Spirits as different than our man colours from Noah.
I ignore and let an operation of error go on not putting a disclaimer now or just leaving the faces and colour non distinquishable. Have you seen Sparlock, nobody knows what he is on children sector of jw.org. LOL
I am so glad that the day has come when you and I can express our feelings about this question of race freely here on this site.
We have one poster (Jerome, we love him) that we have to take his posts down as he wants to bring the black struggle here for us to fight and clear up. It is a bigger problem than us here on this site.
I have not found that racial makeup makes a difference in the Bible Students (I travel to many conventions). I find our brothers are true. I can read it if it isn’t and will work with my brother to get them accustomed to me if I feel it. Face it anointed1 you and I have to work on that also. Every Black person, even in some African nations have to work on this.
My last congregation as a witness was severely prejudice and made not attempt to cover it up. I admit I was a colorful thorn in their flesh until they would be roaring with laughter after they realized what had come out of my mouth in comments. We learned to like each other. When asked about great men that have left an impact on the world, I comment Martin Luther King, asked why? I said because you brothers would not have the joy of me sitting next to you and adding that little bit that was missing that made you whole and acceptable to Jehovah. Pause,silence then laughter, we all were closer.
This question of RACE is a diversion and a tool of the devil to try and make us lose our crowns. The potential Body members of Christ must fight it with the full battle gear and armor and HOLY SPIRIT. Potential I say because we must endure until the end either of our lives or the arrival of our LORD to obtain the Crown of Life!
To Jacqueline and Hank
Thanks for your comment Jacqueline, interesting insight into some serious descrimination in JW’s down south back in the day. i have noticed some misjudgement by white bros and sis in congregations, the worst was by a south african who did not want her daughter sitting next to me. i have also noticed the misjudement vise versa.
However i am sure that like myself you took such occurences and tried to be forgiving. Afterall these ones had been indocrinated by such a culture from an impressionable age and just as scripture says trained in something as a boy – even till old age one will not turn aside from it, and it must have been and continues to be very difficult for ones of any race who grapple with such issues, as long as they don’t give up on grappleing – that is the point.
i am of mixed heritage myself, and have white bros and sis not in the faith.
i point out the error of C. T. Russell and early bible students because it was an error. i understand the error in the light of the era they were living in. However to be in 21st century and the JW’s – i believe – God’s organisation has not moved on from portraying Angels, resurrected Jesus, the heavenly bride – white, the vast majority of anointed on earth as white. This is not good enough for an organisation that is the God of all the people’s of the earth.
This image is taken to African and Asian continent. it smacks of colonialism, institutionalised racism (only those at top of theocracy as caucasian,i.e Jesus, angels, anointed). God’s organisation should be different from the world not imitating it. it has let us and more importantly Jehovah down.
The darkness is that many amongst JW’s can’t see the gravity of this error. According to them they have a loving brotherhood. The reality is that because of the weight of their white history their is a division amongst them, not one person of colour – Asian, African, Chinese, Japanese,man, woman or child to this day has walked into a K.H. equal to their white conuterpart – because of its history snd because of current illustraions.
What would be so wrong with a Reveleation it’s Grand Climax at Hand book going to Africa with illustraions of Jesus at his marriage to bride and they both look like black people? Jesus and bride could be in the same publication and with different illustrations be represented as different race. I don’t see why not, whatever race we are we are in image of God – our mind and heart. i dont believe Jesus would be offended represented as a black man. if any in cong. would be – oh well.
Jesus was only on this earth for a glich. i have no complaint at how he’s illustrated for his time on earth. However, in his pre-human and post human existence he should not just be portrayed as white. And for WTBTS to take this white image to all people’s of the planet – how arrogant is that! And they had the ordasity to call the African’s in ’74 arrogant.
As i have said already, not excusing the error, i understand the climate of Rusell’s days and even early to mid 20th century but c’mon post 1960′-70’s there is absolutely no excuse.
it will change. it is a gross overisght. it is a result of GB isolating itself from rest of a collective slave class. One black man on GB kinda like a token so late in the day it should have happened much sooner and the GB should look more diverse overall. Are there no long standing oriental ones of the anointed.
Anyway not a lot you can do about it. Maybe ones of JW’s monitoring anything i have written may rightly so – give it some consideration.
Hi anonymous I want to just say however we are not witnesses so I can’t speak for why the society does what it does.
Also to correct you on one point I know however. The persons in the watchtowers are black if it goes to Africa and Asian if it goes to Asia. I have the other nations watchtowers plus I have visited many many times and have relatives there and have had close relatives in Bethel so I know this to be a true fact. Some nations will not accept a watchtower potrayal of any nation but what their nation looks like. Also I don’t believe in an organization on earth today in place of simply Jesus as Christians mediator. I believe in a personal relationship and responsibility to Jehovah and Jesus and that those of like faith should meet together for encouragement and to discuss scripture. So we differ on this point
This question of race is not an issue with me so much, I was just stating facts of my experience within the organization of JW. I don’t fault the individuals as they do what a few men tell them to do. Here I make my decisions along the line of the bible and we maintain Christian unity and association.
Racism was such a problem in New York Bethel that most witnesses didn’t know that there was alledgedly a watch on them by the NAACP to puts blacks at the front desk and in jobs other that menial labor.
I know all of this, had relatives live it including my brother. They made all those mistakes now and in the past on pedophilia even so if as they say God led them on every step, I don’t believe it. God is not ignorant and racism and protecting pedophiles is ignorant.
If they say they are trying to make the best decisions I can accept that. We are all humans, but they claim they got info from those in heaven of the anointed as represented by the 24 elders and directly from God. The bible teaches that Jesus has the cong. in his hand. So I go by what they say.
Since I don’t believe in a gb having any power or anointed ones having power not having different ones of races on the gb is a moot point with me. I think the whole thing is a scheme and they are living in luxury and say now that they buy and restore real estate according to a news article filed in their new property.
Although I don’t believe in the gb as anything other than men it is okay to discuss them with me or us as I understand these things have to poured out of your heart. I now hardly think about the gb or the JW org although all of my family are still in. I have to say the peace I feel is just beyond what I could have imagined not being under a harsh authoritative system of men. What a blessing!
The BS have so much material and whole weekends you can attend in homes as Brothers come together to dig in the bible verse by verse. I went to a Daniel 4 day weekend and it was a blast. Our conventions are adobe connect so there is one somewhere every month if not almost every weekend.
Sweden had their first one a few weeks ago headed by an xjw brother and others from that part of the world traveled to be speakers. There was a huge crowd on adobe connect from all over the world. I am enjoying the Love God showed me by getting me out of that organization that I was born into. It was okay for me until about 1968 when they pushed teaching the world would end in 1975. I fought that openly if I was asked to teach it to Bible Studies. I believed them when they said they were the only one that understood the heavenly and earthly hope. That was a lie they were printing the interlinear for the Dawn.
Take Care.
Hi Jacqueline not sure what has happened but the posting today by myself at 10:26 am has anonymous name on it.
I thought that was you. I will change it to your name okay?
anointed1 I want to share an experience with you when I attend pioneer school in the early 90’s. Each class has to present a question to the society when our 2 weeks are over.
I raised my hand and asked “Why is Black Always Wrong?” the class was not pleased but the DO said give me a chance to explain myself. I said Black Women can’t wear braids if they do they must have a scarf covering them and can’t get on the platform. Although black brothers have a severe bump problem they can’t wear facial hair. All black cuts are outlawed in fact anything that is specific to blacks is wrong in the watchtower. Black sister are portrayed in the watchtower either no hair or long silky hair like caucasion, no black angels or what not,so why is black always wrong. The question was submitted.
# months later I get a call from the DO to watch out for a watchtower and call him when I get it from the KH.
The very first magazine where you saw a Black sister in field service on the Cover was in answer to the question from our pioneer class. If you remember it needed touching up, which disturbed us LOL.
So that was an instance where they listened and since then every sister that wanted to began to wear braids that very week and now it is history. Just a history piece about the watchtower in the US.
I am about to go to bed so I can get up early and travel to the convention for three days. Br. Chuck will monitor the site and I will in between sessions also. Take Care anointed1.
Domenic AND Anointed 1, sorry I have to approve your comments manually. I will attempt to check often. When you use the word sex in a comment it is flagged for admin to review first. So that is not us doing that. Thanks, Jacqueline
Hi Jacqueline, missed your May 17 posting, just read it. I have never felt as a JW that I was in a ‘high control’ situation. My prevailing feeling was that I was amongst God’s people.
JW’S gave me much truth and freedom from false religious beliefs and freedom from uncertainty of Man’s future, just as my master and leader Jesus said, know the truth and the truth will set you free.
I believe to be within organisation of JW’s is the best place to be.
My gripe with them is that they have exalted GB too much , this led to virtually ignoring others of FDS. I believe that Jah will act to correct this error.
anointed1 I never realized it until I was out of it. I never gave it a thought that my medical decisions were being made by these men. Vaccinations were out when I was a girl, then in. Lecithin,aluminum pots, blood transfusion to save our lives should be a personal decision. Blood is always poured out to save lives in the bible. No colored shirts, yes now you can. No beard, measure the sister’s skirts with rulers, nylons must be worn. Getting on the platform to teach without a head covering. Women should not teach from the platform, yes we were teaching the audience not the person we were talking to. Attendance at an international convention was decided by men and very constricted if you went. I could go on and on about the bigger issues, even the hellfire aspect of armageddon. Most persons remain witnesses to escape the watchtower’s armageddon- hellfire doctrine. Birthdays, holidays are out but anniversaries and baby showers are okay. Wedding rings are fine but hoiidays are off. And non of it had anything to do with the bible just more rules than the Law Covenant.
Now I can get into the bible and other material and start my brain to thinking. Now they have tithing for the building fund, yet they often spoke against it.
So glad you never felt abused or confined. I never worried about anyone knowing whether or not I had the hope held out to Christians today. That never bothered me but the GB substituting itself for Christ did. I don’t believe that the Jwitnesses is God’s earthly manifestation of Jesus kingdom. To Pilate He said my kingdom is not from this source, otherwise they would be fighting here for me.
I don’t accept that there are vicars for Christ in a huge corporation today. Jw to me are just another religious organization. I have nothing against the people that are a part of it, just it ruling body.
Hi Jacqueline
From my time as JW we were encouraged to fill out a medical directive and give this to our doctor. The directive would convey our individual personal choice as regards medical care in respect of blood derivatives but whole blood and it’s major components I believe must not be touched under any circumstances. Christ poured out his blood prior to this on Hebrew scripture blood was poured out. Blood should not be taken in as Paul clearly wrote you must abstain from blood.
I vaguely recall an older brother relating to me how at one time it was white shirts only, he did so with humour. But more seriously these man made rules are going beyond what is written which as you know is just to dress modestly.
Scripture says a woman should not teach in congregation, if for some reason this may be required a head covering scripture says is required.
I’m glad not to celebrate any annual festival such as easter and Christmas and be bound by them.
We don’t usually do baby shower here in UK.
I, m honoured to partake of memorial once a year on Nisan 14 and in emulation of the importance of covenant it must only be right if a husband and wife should annually commemorate their marriage covenant.
As regards being JW I have only ever felt abused or confined as regards their now obsolete teaching on close of call to heavenly hope. Since May 2007 they dropped this teaching and no longer promote 1935. This error occurred by going beyond what was written in scripture.
The GB continue to go beyond what is written by promoting themselves only as FDS. I suffered abuse in being treated as apostate for speaking out about this.
I don’t feel there is anything I can say to someone who was a JW for so long, a lifetime!
We clearly have a difference of opinion of JW’S and I guess we will just have to agree to disagree. Jah Bless
Anointed1, thanks for your reply. Yes we probably have to agree to disagree. I have too many cases of abuse and just visited a witness in a nursing home where the elders aren’t aware she is recuperating there. They were hovering last Tuesday to make sure she didn’t take blood however. a liquid organ transplant then they left. They were to busy at 11:45pm to go to the aid of a witness so they called me because they knew I would respond in that emergency if I could and I am their local apostate. So still the elders push the society’s teaching on No Blood transfusion. It was not your nor my personal decision to give the blood card to our physician. I know when it was institute and my father defied them by taking blood, that was his decision on his health care. You, I nor any JW thought upthe doctrine and enforced and instituted the blood cards. This was done by the organization. No individual decided they all including me complied with the organization. It was a very serious matter if you tried to approach the platform in a colored shirt, probation is what it was called back then if you did it.
But all of us have had different experiences it is true.
It is just I mention these to keep hope alive for those coming on here and seeing such a whitewashed view of the organization. There has been comments today to plead for some to come back and I know how many is reading it over 100-200 a day and 5,000-6000 a month reading this so we need to offset the comments and let them with these horrific experiences know we know and sympathize with their trials.
I am glad Anointed1 that you were spared trials and we might just have to agree to disagree. Jacqueline
Hi Jacqueline, I suppose any case of abuse or neglect , in what is God’s organisation would be a cause for disappointment, upset , anger . It is sad in our imperfection how we can cause each other grief.
Jehovah sees all, no abuse or neglect has He turned a blind eye too. Jah will act for all abused. There will be a change in the organisations approach. I wait in absolute faith for it, we serve a God who is love, he will correct the lack of it.
I cannot fault JW’S on the blood issue. It is I believe a scripturally straightforward instruction to abstain from blood. The blood cards I see as a loving provision along with hospital liason committees.
As anointed1 of Jehovah and having been rejected and difellowshiped by JWs I have had my fare share of stress and anxiety as did apostle Paul and Jesus Christ ,I must follow their example and cope with the rejection.
anointed1 a great attitude and I never wish to add to the stress or anxiety of my brothers. I will attend a 3 day convention this weekend in Chicago, Il. I have found peace at heart and mind and have lots of friends with the Bible Students. I am so glad it was not true that they had died out. And to see the society drop the stigma they had put on us as being the “Evil Slave” last year was something totally out of character for the GB, but people can change. They now say the evil slave is among the anointed in New York. But as you say Jesus will shortly began his rule and afterward Jehovah will have the final judgement that is mentioned so much in the Bible. I always appied those scriptures to armageddon but now I can see the Divine Plan more clearly. I also feel restful at heart that all people will get a chance to know the truth about God and decide in the millennium with full knowledge if they will submit to Jehovah. With over 6,000 years now of experience with sin and it’s results hopefully by end of 1,000 yrs a great number will be saved. If not at least now I know they will have had a chance and not what as a JW I was teaching them. Take Care Jacqueline
Anointed 1,
I am going to lead you to a site that is backed by scriptures. This is proof of what took place in the Garden, and explains Genesis 3:15. It will make clear why Ham had sex with his mother. No part of the Bible is clear without Genesis 3:15.
After you read these 3 articles, you will be left with the question, “Why do religions not teach this? Why do they hide this?”
Do not bother yourself with being, or not being a Jehovah’s Witnesses at this point. First learn about Genesis 3:15. Once you have learned the above, a second fact will have to be dealt with: “Why did Jesus really die? Why was he dead for 3 days? And why do religions not teach the truth about this?”
I do not know this man Charles Crosby. I do not follow him. He is only a man. What I do know, God will use any person, be he good, or bad to get his truth out. As you read the 3 articles by Crosby, check everything with your Bible. Use the New World translation. Even the Jews say it has the best translations.
1) Go to this site;
Charles Crosby – EzineArticles.com Expert Author
ezinearticles.com/?expert=Charles_Crosby Cached
Author Alerts: Get notified by email when new articles are written by Charles Crosby!
2) you will see a list of articles. Scroll down to the last article. Right belowe that you will see.
“View all of Charles Crosby’s published articles.” This is where you want to enter.
3) scroll down to: bottom of page. Here you will see a list of 7 pages. You want page 3.
4) Now that you are on page 3, you will find 3 articles.
Did Eve Have Sex With the Devil Or Did She Just Eat Some Fruit? – Part 1 by Charles Crosby
Did Eve Have Sex With the Devil Or Did She Just Eat Some Fruit? – Part 2 – Cain and Abel
Did Eve Have Sex With the Devil Or Did She Just Eat Some Fruit? – Part 3 – The Mark of Cain by Charles Crosby
Domenic Pappalardo
Hi Domenic will have to decline to view site you mentioned. Reason being I believe would not be beneficial to go beyond what is written. There is absolutely nothing said in scripture in relation to either eve having sex with the devil or reason Ham having sex with his mother.
Also I would decline to look at book of Enoch you mentioned. Reason being I prefer to stick to established cannon only. These teach the truth of Jah ,Jesus and Kingdom. What I know of established cannon, I cherish and value these truths and feel no need to keep searching.
Thanks all the same for your consideration.
anointed 1,
I agree, only in the Bible will one finer truth. I had said, “Ham, son of Noah…had intercourse with his mother. (Noah’s wife.) The scripture says, “Ham uncovered his fathers nakedness.” Lets see what the Bible says that means;
Lev 18:8 The nakedness of thy father’s wife shalt thou not uncover: it is thy father’s nakedness.
Lev 20:11 And the man that lieth with his father’s wife hath uncovered his father’s nakedness: both of them shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
Sorry Domenic , meant to ask what is your answer to the question WHY – which is related to gen3:15?
More times than not, I work from back to front when reading the Bible. All I search out is based on genesis 3:15. As a JW, a very old friend (an Elder) said: “Genesis 3:15 is the key to the whole Bible.” He did not remember saying this to me. He may have been talking to himself…which he did often. I read Genesis 3:15, and stuck a nail into it, and never took the nail out.
Here is how I work backwards. I read something, and have to ask, “What is this?” What is this is always an answer to a secret more toward the front of the Bible. Here is an example:
Lev 18:8 The nakedness of thy father’s wife shalt thou not uncover: it is thy father’s nakedness.
Lev 20:11 And the man that lieth with his father’s wife hath uncovered his father’s nakedness: both of them shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
Going toward the front of the Bible we read,
(Ham uncovered his fathers nakedness.)
“Gen 9:18-27 And the sons of Noah, that went forth of the ark, were Shem, and Ham, and Japheth: and Ham is the father of Canaan. 19 These are the three sons of Noah: and of them was the whole earth overspread. 20 And Noah began to be an husbandman, and he planted a vineyard: 21 And he drank of the wine, and was drunken; and he was uncovered within his tent. 22 And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brethren without. 23 And Shem and Japheth took a garment, and laid it upon both their shoulders, and went backward, and covered the nakedness of their father; and their faces were backward, and they saw not their father’s nakedness. 24 And Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done unto him. 25 And he said, Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren. 26 And he said, Blessed be the LORD God of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant. 27 God shall enlarge Japheth, and he shall dwell in the tents of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant.”
Ham had sex with his mother! This brings up the QUESTION…WHY?
The answer to that question in linked to Genesis 3:15.
God will give his people answers if they but ask.
This is very interesting line of reasoning , much food for thought. Did Noah,s sons walk in backwards to cover nakedness of their father in the sense of actually covering their naked mother? Did their mother become drunk along with Noah so that she allowed her son to have sex with her?
Reminds me of account where Lot’s daughters got him drunk so as to have sex with him.
Must note these things were done before written law against them.
These accounts of drunkeness show how Jehovah feels about drunkeness. It often precedes immoral behaviour.
No a h’s drunkeness and his wife and sons immorality tell us that although they may have entered a clean new post world flood , it was not paradise found. Sin prevailed and even so soon after flood the promise of gen3:15 was still needed.
Sorry Domenic , meant to ask what is the answer to your question WHY , that is linked to gen3:15