The suggested answers provided to all questions below are based on and in harmony with the views of the original Watchtower Bible and Tract Society when under the guidance of Pastor Charles Taze Russell. Comments will often include a link to Pastor Russell’s own explanation. However, in any case, we leave your conclusions to your own personal study, prayer, conscience and the influence of the Holy Spirit.
- Who are the Friends of Jehovah’s Witnesses who have created this website?
- Why have the Friends of Jehovah’s Witnesses set up this site? What is your purpose?
- Should we really want to be on earth rather than heaven? Does the Bible give us that option?
- Are the Great Crowd the same as all the people in Paradise Earth?
- What is the role of the Great Crowd on Paradise Earth?
- Is the Great Crowd to be in heaven or on earth?
- Who are the “other sheep” of John 10:16?
- What happens to Anointed who do not make the 144,000
- As the Path Shines Brighter, does the Truth Change?
- Why does God Permit Evil and Human Suffering?
- What is the future mission of the Anointed for which they are now being prepared?
- Will Present Unbelievers Serve and Worship Jehovah on Paradise Earth?
- Will Everyone Be Resurrected from the Dead?
- Have People Received Final Judgment for the Past 6,000 or will they have an Opportunity for Judgment and Restitution on Paradise Earth?
- Will the wicked get an opportunity to repent in Paradise earth?
- Who will occupy the land of Israel in Paradise earth?
- Who does Jehovah make the New Covenant with?
- What prophecies regarding Israel’s regathering have already been or are being fulfilled?
I don’t understand why you keep referring to the genealogical record of the priesthood, to me it’s clear that Heb 7:3-4 is talking about the man. It’s comparing Melchizedek to Jesus, 3” Without father or mother, without genealogy, without beginning of days or end of life, resembling the Son of God, he remains a priest forever.” We know how long Shem lived Gen 11:11, so therefore, I believe the bible is very clear that Shem and Melchizedek are not the same person.
With regard to the site on Mythology and the Bible, I don’t know where the author gets his facts. One example is the following quote, “Thus we gather that very shortly after the deluge the human race was divided into two camps, one for the Lord and righteousness among whom Shem took the leading part, the other for unrighteousness with Ham as the principal apostate. Of the latter branch of the race Nimrod was descended.” He doesn’t give any scriptural basis for saying that, Gen 11:6 would seem to imply differently. If I were to speculate I’d say that Noah would have taken the leading part since he lived for 350 years after the flood. The Bible doesn’t provide any information regarding Shem after Gen 11:11 and very little information as to who Melchizedek was. As to your question of who I think he was, I prefer to abide by the rule; when the Bible is silent on a topic, it is wise for us to follow its example.
I agree with you Anonymous about being silent on a Bible topic that’s silent……many persons have ended up with their “foot in their mouth” by trying to speculate on things that aren’t written.
Anonymous – Thanks for some good remarks. I do not know if Shem was Melchizedek. To my mind, he seems to be the best candidate. Yes we know from Gen 11:10-11 that Shem lived 600 years. Therefore at the time Abraham met Melchizedek, Shem was alive and arguably the most revered human being on the planet. Regarding mythology, the author gets some of his facts from the book “Two Babylons,” by Hislop.
To Ken and all;
Get to you tomorrow.
max
My point exactly, Peter, if Melchizedek doesn’t have a recorded genealogy, then how can he be Shem who does? Ken, if you go to dawnbible.com and click on the booklet “Oh the Blessedness!” it’ll tell you the difference between Dawn Bible Students and others.
Anonymous – You are right that we really can’t know for certain who Melchizekek was. Who do you think he was? In the case of Shem, there was no priestly genealogical record, which was great in contrasting with the Aaronic Priesthood. For anyone born after the flood, there was no memory of Shem ever being born. He was just always there. There is not record of his death. You might find it interesting to read Hislop’s book “Two Babylon’s” or easier yet, Edgar’s chapter on Mythology and the Bible. This helps to show the importance and prominence of Shem if the post flood world.
http://www.agsconsulting.com/myth.htm
Ok thanks anonymous. After reading “Oh the Blessedness”, my understanding is they’re not into dates and only accept 1799 and 1914 as having any real bearing on Bible chronology. Is that the right understanding or am I missing something?
Ok, after rereading ” Oh the Blessedness” I realize the Dawn Bible students have disregarded all of russell’s dates and with good reason!
What’s the difference between the dawn Bible students and the other Bible students?
To Ken and all;
It was just showing that people go against members of the holy city New Jerusalem in many different ways. But you have the ones who are alive at Armageddon which are removed forever. But the ones resurrected will have a chance at everlasting life. But read Zec 14:16-21 and notice what happens to those who still then don’t want to go along with the program. You either receive the blessings or reject the blessings from the city of the living God, New Jerusalem. The measurements for it are to big to be on earth, so we realize it means its blessing will come from it in heaven over the earth. Another reason we know they go to heaven is they,”and they will see his face.” Re 22:4 Ex 33:20 says no MAN can see my face and live. So they have to be spirits like Jesus. 1 Pe 3:18
max
Ok max I get it. so do you consider yourself one of the Bride class?
Bro Max i am absolutely amazed that you can not read the scripture and accept what it says. it amazes me. Zechariah 14 v 16 is talking about the survivors of Armageddon. i ask anyone reading these comments to read Zechariah 14. and judge for your self what the truth is please let the Word of God speak to you. put out of your mind any pre determined thoughts and just read the text. if someone has the courage and humility to do this the only True God Jehovah will surely bless you
Max,
I would have to agree with humbleman. The specific words in these verses (and the several others that have been quoted) are so specific on this point that
“….all nations will attack Jerusalem…there will be survivors of the nations that attacked Jerusalem.”
It surprises me that one could read these simple words any other way. I even called Moody Bible radio on this exact context a couple of times over the years when they have an on air open question period. The conclusion for these Rapture believing Christians at Moody was the same, unbelievers will have an opportunity after Armageddon, after the coming of Christ.
The question then becomes….what about those who die in Armageddon? Will they be judged? Will they be raised to judgment?
Acts 24:15 “having a hope in god, which these men cherish themselves, that there shall certainly be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.”
They would definitely fit the wicked category, would they not?
Jeff I listen to Moody talk when traveling and this Monday 2/6/2012 they were talking about Israel. They mentioned the attack that is expected on Israel and used the same scriptural support as you have been presenting. They also believe that there will be survivors after armageddon that actually fought with Israel using scriptural support. They believe the bible when it says Israel will accept Christ after armageddon. There was a panel of different religious leaders. I was shocked that JW are among the religions that do not accept the bible clear cut instructions on this. We were told that JW are the ones that have discerned that this is spiritual Israel and the watchtower society in Patterson was waiting one year for the attack on them. I was visiting relative there and they were for some reason thinking it was very imminent and viewed the tunnels at Patterson as a placw where they would hide. I guess the more I read, listen and learn it is apparent that there has been a major deception concerning Israel. I just can’t see why they would do that. The scriptures are clear, this natural nonbelieving Israel. I appreciate your comments that have explained these to us. We have been reading and discussing the excellent scriptural presentations. We thank Jesus for providing such insight. Thank you so much Jacqueline.
Thank you for your comments Jacqueline. Did Moody actually mentioned the Jehovah’s Witnesses in the panel? That would be a very interesting discussion to listen to. Was this panel a part of their Founder’s Week that is going on right now?
Max, I’m sorry I have to say this, (and my words will be somewhat harsh….
The only conclusion I can come to after discussing with many Jehovah’s Witnesses on this topic, both personally, and through discussion forums such as this, and through reading their history and literature, is that they want people to be afraid.
The reason I say this is because many of these contexts that have been quoted are so clear.
If the Bible says something is black, and the governing body says that it is white, the witnesses will say it is white. If the Bible says it is white and the governing body says it is black, the witnesses say it is black.
Israel in the last days is unbelieving until AFTER Armageddon. Unbelieving Israel will then have the Holy Spirit poured out on them AFTER Armageddon.
Many of the passages I have quoted also state that unbelievers from the nations who attack Israel in Armageddon will have an oppportunity at salvation. The witnesses either skip over these passages in their literature or read the passage in such a way that the clear meaning of it is lost.
I think the governing body wants their followers to be afraid. If they can keep them in fear, they will keep in line. If they don’t have this fear factor to keep them in line, they will lose their members in droves, and all of the income that the society gets will be lost.
Jeff the only words I heard that made me listen was “just because a person is talking to a Jehovah Witness it doesn’t mean they are a Jehovah witness”. Why that was said was never brought up again. The rest of the conversation for over 2 hrs was interesting and on Israel. Yes it is a part of their special summit. I always pick them up along the !-65 downstate area. Since having the freedom to listen to another person’s words I have seen that although they know very well about armageddon and the aftermat. They can’t seem to follow through on the kingdom government and how it blesses the earth. The bride class is not so clear to them and they hold to hell (Gehenna) being literal fire. But on Israel the bible is clear enough for those that have not broken the sacred secret of the kingdom, to understand that the attack on Israel is significant to where we stand in the stream of time.
PS: I was traveling from 1:30 pm on 2/6/2012. I think their programs are on archive on the internet.
Max,
It is also interesting that in all of these contexts that have been quoted, Israel is unbelieving until AFTER Armageddon.
There has been no comment by you on this point either.
To Jeff and all;
Sorry I got got off yesterday. Acts 16:14,15,”And Jehovah opened her heart wide to pay attention to the things being spoken of by Paul. she and her household got baptized.”
We can agree this had Jehovah’s backing. Just a positive expierence! Now lets have you read 16-24 and see a not so nice expierence.
We can agree that Paul and Silas will make up a part of the city. Re 21:10,”holy city Jerusalem coming down out of heaven from God.” Verse 10 said something to the effect, I will show you the bride.
Did the possed girl do something bad to two represenatives of that new city Jerusalem?
Did her masters go against those two?
Did the crowds and cival magistrates go against the two?
Now we could get more such occurances. But the point,that those left remaining out of the nations that are coming against Jerusalem will celebrate the festival of booths. The possed girl,the masters,the civil magistrates and the crowds will all be resurrected. And the last verse shows they will or they will be removed. All the earthly celebrators will come to the city of the living God, heavenly Jerusalem.
Now I will refrain in going through Zec 14:1-4 which shows a negative effect for those who fight against the city when Jehovah’s day comes to a end.
Hello Max, what you’re referring to was in our book study lesson last night,however, I don’t understand your point………
You’re right Dupin, it’s all speculation since the story of Shem ends with Gen 10:11. B S speculate he built the pyramid, that he was Melchizedek, hyksos, etc… Maybe he did build the pyramid as you say he had the knowledge. Maybe he had a hand in building the tower of Babel. Speculation can go either way. As far as Shem being Melchizedek look up Heb 7 especially the third verse.
Dupin and Anonymous – Melchizedek’s parentage was not recorded for us, “without father, without mother [of record, thus] without pedigree [margin],” unlike Levitical priests, who had to demonstrate their pedigree from Aaron. The priesthood of Jesus, like Melchizedek, did not depend upon tracing his roots to Aaron (Hebrews 7:3).{FOOTNOTE: Twentieth Century New Testament, Ferrar Fenton, Lamsa, and the Complete Jewish Bible, all agree (editor).}
Also, Paul noted that the record does not mention the passing of Melchizedek, whereas the death of Aaron is recorded. The contrast indicates that the antitypical Melchizedek will be without end of days. This fits Jesus, who now has eternal life: “Having neither beginning of days [no genealogy on record], nor end of life [on record]; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually” (Hebrews 7:3).
“There is no record of Melchizedek’s father or mother, or any of his ancestors, no record of his birth or his death” (TEV).
“There is no mention of his father; there is no mention of his mother; no ancestor of his is ever mentioned. His days are never said to have any beginning, and his life is never said to have any end” (Barclay).
“There is no record of his father, or mother, or lineage, nor again of any beginning of his days, or end of his life” (TCNT).
It’s amazing how many things are attributed to Shem and how little the scriptures say about him.
Hi Anonymous and welcome. I saw your comment earlier and went on the internet to see if there was some other info. I know there are other holy writings that give rise to some insight and speculation. But you are correct about your assessment. Maybe there is a reason that some will share. Take care my friend. Jacqueline
I haven’t done much looking into that Anonymous, but I wouldn’t doubt it. Consider a few things. Shem was 98 when the flood came and he lived for 502 years after that, making him a contemporary of Abraham and the distribution of his descendents puts him somewhere in or near the same area as the patriarch.
Lifespans deterioated rapidly after the flood with Shem watching his son Arphaxad die at 403 years of age and his son die 35 years later. You get the picture? Upwards of two generations passed before Shem did so to many people Shem who was alive before the time of their father’s fathers must have inspired quite a bit of awe and no doubt even before his death many great things and deeds were attributed to him. so no surprises there.
I qualified my comments for a reason. They are speculatory and although they do tie things up in a rather neat little package that is all they really are. Many Bible Students think they are reasonable explanations for things and they may be. But we are dealing with areas for which there is scarce evidence in the Bible and we’ll never know if they are what happened with any certainty until after the players involved are resurrected. Being the insatiably curious fellow I am I look forward to finding the answer out. Until then I’m not going to be dogmatic about the question since the Bible isn’t clear. I just point out what most in the movement think happened. 🙂
Well, that created the proper link. I guess I don’t need to use HTML tags.
Thank you for your insight Dupin. I will get around to those links. I am reading the book of Enoch now but my bucket list will include the pyramid.
“Bucket List” LOL!! Hope it doesn’t take that long!:)
You can tell when a person just learned about something, ie “bucket list”. One of my patients mentioned her bucket list and I asked what she meant. She was so happy she said to teach me something! She told me about the movie. No I had not seen nor heard of the movie but it seemed like a good idea to have a bucket list. So I created one. I mentioned my list once to my son and he said “mom what do you know about that” are you dying? I said I have accepted and look forward to that. Even I recognized I always wanted to live thru armageddon, but not anymore. Very strange things are happening in my thinking and way of viewing matters. I just pray, and then accept whatever Jehovah divine providence allow and don’t critique such feelings to closely. I just concentrate on learning more accurately the truth now, but strike off things on my “Bucket List”. I read Seola, Alive again by Br. “John Class” and am on page 82 of the 129 page with explanations of the book of Enoch. I am so glad I was laid low so I could slow down and study. Never was encouraged or had time before. Enjoying it.
You’re welcome Jacqueline:
Something about the way I tried to do the link caused two of them to simply send the link back to this site. But the last one goes where I want it to, to the page for the book on the Chicago Bible Student’s website. I’ll just have to keep in mind the website will automatically create links for me.
Hello all, I have a question about the great pyramid of Gizeh Egypt; do the modern day Bible students still regard it as “God’s stone witness?”
Ken, I have only looked briefly at the facts of the pyramid. I however was blown away by a documentary on some of the other structures on this earth that cannot be duplicated with our high technology. One such structure was giant rocks that appeared to melt or was fused to fit like a puzzle but the rocks had been subjected to some type of atomic heat. Can’t be duplicated nor explained how it was done. I do believe that there are structures here not made by our hands. Bible Students have to make their own decision on whether this is the stone witness mentioned in scripture. I like that it is not a salvation point and freedom to consider and decide is left to the reader. My jury is still out as I have not considered it to any degree with so much from the bible to understand. Take Care Ken
Thanks Jacqueline
I think.
That you may be referring to the huge stone fortifications in Peru there Jacqueline. That and a few other examples are something I think may be pe-Noachian and show us how advance their knowledge and technology were back then. the size and strength of the fortifications also show us how violent that ancient world was.
There are many in the Bible Student movement who believe that Melchizedek was shem and was among the “hyksos” kings who invaded Egypt and built the pyramid before leaving and disappearing from history. Shem was alive at the time, so it’s possible. Considering that he help his father build that impressive ark he certainly would’ve been familiar with the construction techniques and technology necessary to pull it off. Since the Pyramid of Giza was the first of the three impressive pyramids and the quality only descends with the building of the rest a plausible case can be made for that conjecture.
One of the classes I’m with is studying the portion of Vol. III which discusses the Pyramid. It’s turning out to be an interesting study ad I’m quite knew to that aspect of Russell’s teachings myself. The Chicago Bible Students still publish the three volumes on the subject of the Pyramid Written by John & Morton Edgar in one volume.
http://www.chicagobible.org/book-store.html?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=104&category_id=1
I was given the first two volumes as a gift and they are something.
Sad, the link I created isn’t allowed to take you to the page i targeted. Try copying and pasting this:
http://www.chicagobible.org/book-store.html?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=104&category_id=1
Thank you Dupin!