Beyond the Watchtower
Looking to our Past for lessons to help inform our Future
Our new logo of the original Watchtower cross and crown supports our subtitle “Looking to our Past – For lessons about our Future. Find more out the Watchtower history of the cross and crown by clicking here:
WHY THE NAME CHANGE FROM “FRIENDS OF JEHOVAH’S WITNESSES” TO “BEYOND THE WATCHTOWER?” New redirected website address is — BeyondWatchtower.com.
First an introduction: We are Bible Students who since the early Watchtower days have continued to meet together in congregations around the world. We retain, continue to study, and offer to others, the original Watchtower writings and literature, which we enjoy as wonderful resources to help understand and harmonize the Bible’s teachings. Some of us created the “Friends of Jehovah’s Witnesses” website in an attempt to reach out in the spirit of Christian love and friendship, both to struggling Jehovah’s Witnesses and to Ex-Jehovah’s Witnesses.
Why are we reaching out?
A. We hope to provide a safe haven website of help, support, encouragement, open conversation and as well an information center.
B. We hope to provide for your consideration, the enduring, valued, spiritual light of truth that shone forth so brightly in the early days of the Watchtower ministry. In the spirit of Christian love and liberty, we extend to you this invitation to study, not with an autocratic ORGANIZATION controlled by a “Governing Body,” but rather with fellow Christian students of the Bible in the spirit of the Berean’s (Acts 17:11).
C. We hope to share with you areas of our common roots and the true history and the original mission of the early Watchtower Society. In its early days, it operated as a publishing house. It had absolutely NO authority over any of the hundreds of independent congregations which were controlled solely by the congregation members themselves; not by domineering elders, overbearing overseers or a dictatorial Governing Body. In those days each elder could only remain in office if at the annual elections they received 75% of the vote from the Holy Spirit anointed congregation members voting based on the Biblical qualifications for elder (1 Tim 3 and Titus 1).
So why the name change to “Beyond the Watchtower.”
Some visitors to our site have had the mistaken impression that by calling ourselves “Friends of Jehovah’s Witnesses” that this meant we were in agreement with the new doctrines and the oppressive and controlling spirit of the organization itself and its governing structure as well as its historical practice of shunning questioning members, and the resultant dividing of families. Dear brothers and sisters, nothing could be further from our true heart’s desire. These types of practices were never to be found among the original Watchtower friends prior to 1917.
Our new name “Beyond the Watchtower” contains a dual meaning which helps clarify our mission:
1: To help, support and encourage present JWs looking BEYOND todays Watchtower or else former JWs AFTER leaving the JW Organization. We would like to provide the type of support as shared in A & B above, to help those presently questioning or struggling with their relationship in the J.W. Organization and who may even have endured and suffered from spiritual and emotional wounds.
2: As described in C above, to provide an accurate historical account of events that took place BEYOND or AFTER the early Watchtower” days when a new organization emerged under new leadership, dramatically changing its beliefs and practices.
In these early Watchtower days, many of the original Bible Students refused to accept the new and changed teachings. Nor would they be controlled by and surrender their Christian liberty to this new and very tough leader, Joseph Rutherford. These Bible Students broke away from the new and emerging JW organization and either maintained or reestablished Bible Student congregation’s worldwide. By 1931, 75% of the Original Bible Students had left this new organization which in that year adopted the name “Jehovah’s Witnesses” in order to draw a clear line of distinction from those who had left the Society and those who remained.
The Bible Students as a Christian fellowship still meet together to the present day as free and independent congregations retaining their original beliefs and practicing the same spirit of Christian liberty as was adhered to during the early Watchtower days up through October of 1916 when Brother Russell died.
With these true, loving and encouraging wishes for you, we hope that this website aids you, our visiting brothers and sisters, to find satisfying answers to questions you may have. We hope this site can be an educational, healing center, a safe harbor for achieving a healthy emotional state, a place for spiritual growth in a manner that faithfully follows the scriptures and a place where all of our combined efforts will be found pleasing and honoring to the name of Jehovah, our loving and merciful Heavenly Father.
We hope that a journey with you to the not so distant past will bring you fresh hopes of Jehovah’s kindness and mercy to us today as well as for the bright and wonderful tomorrow that He has promised for all mankind through Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior.
We continue now with our original WELCOME message below.
1Jo 4:18 There is no fear in love, but perfect love throws fear outside, because fear exercises a restraint. Indeed, he that is under fear has not been made perfect in love. – NWT
WELCOME TO THIS CITY OF REFUGE
AND SANCTUARY FOR STUDIOUS AND INQUIRING MINDS.
Acts 17:10, 11: Immediately by night the brothers sent both Paul and Silas out to Be-roe’a, and these, upon arriving, went into the synagogue of the Jews. Now the latter were more noble-minded than those in Thes-sa-lo-ni’ca, for they received the word with the greatest eagerness of mind, carefully examining the Scriptures daily as to whether these things were so. – NWT
You are anonymous here. You can speak to other Jehovah’s Witnesses, former Jehovah’s Witnesses, Bible Students and other Christians. When posting your comments, you will be able to use a Pen Name. Your e-mail address and website info are completely optional. No one can identify you. No one can report you. You have a home and quiet place to pray and honestly investigate scriptures. It is not our purpose to indoctrinate you, but merely to provide you with resources for further study of Jehovah’s word. You are not alone. You have friends.
Romans 14:4 Who are you to judge the house servant of another? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for Jehovah can make him stand. – NWT
2 Tim 1:7 (Amplified Bible) – For God did not give us a spirit of timidity (of cowardice, of craven and cringing and fawning fear), but He has given us a spirit of power and of love and of calm {and} well–balanced mind {and} discipline {and} self–control.
Gal 5:1 – Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage. NKJV
Gal 5:13 – For you, brethren, have been called to liberty; only do not use liberty as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another. NKJV
2Co 3:17 – …where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. NWT
John 8:31, 32 – And so Jesus went on to say to the Jews that had believed him: “If YOU remain in my word, YOU are really my disciples, and YOU will know the truth, and the truth will set YOU free. NWT
If 1 John 4:8 says “God is love,” then shouldn’t love, not fear, be our motivation to serve Jehovah? Are you serving Jehovah in a certain way because you are afraid/fearful of being destroyed in Armageddon?
Hebrews 13:6 (Amplified Bible) – So we take comfort and are encouraged and confidently and boldly say, The Lord is my Helper; I will not be seized with alarm [I will not fear or dread or be terrified]. What can man do to me?
Hi everyone, hope you are all well. I found this article & thought I would share it incase some have not seen it.
Secret £14million Bible in which ‘Jesus predicts coming of Prophet Muhammad’ unearthed in Turkey
Vatican ‘wants to see’ 1,500-year-old ancient script
Has been hidden by Turkish state for 12 years
Handwritten in gold-lettered Aramaic
By DAILY MAIL REPORTER
UPDATED: 17:14, 24 February 2012
A secret Bible in which Jesus is believed to predict the coming of the Prophet Muhammad to Earth has sparked serious interest from the Vatican.
Pope Benedict XVI is claimed to want to see the 1,500-year-old book, which many say is the Gospel of Barnabas, that has been hidden by the Turkish state for the last 12 years.
The £14million handwritten gold lettered tome, penned in Jesus’ native Aramaic language, is said to contain his early teachings and a prediction of the Prophet’s coming.
Secret Bible: The 1,500-year-old tome was is said to contain Jesus’ early teachings and his prediction of the Prophet’s coming
Ancient: The leather-bound text, written on animal hide, was discovered by Turkish police during an anti-smuggling operation in 2000
The leather-bound text, written on animal hide, was discovered by Turkish police during an anti-smuggling operation in 2000.
It was closely guarded until 2010, when it was finally handed over to the Ankara Ethnography Museum, and will soon be put back on public display following a minor restoration.
A photocopy of a single page from the handwritten ancient manuscript is thought to be worth £1.5million.
More…
Being Christian DOESN’T give you the right to be off work on Sundays: Devout care worker loses tribunal
Christian pastor sentenced to death in Iran for refusing to renounce his faith could be hanged ‘at any time without warning’
‘I can’t be sure God DOES NOT exist’: World’s most notorious atheist Richard Dawkins admits he is in fact agnostic
Turkish culture and tourism minister Ertugrul Gunay said the book could be an authentic version of the Gospel, which was suppressed by the Christian Church for its strong parallels with the Islamic view of Jesus.
He also said the Vatican had made an official request to see the scripture – a controversial text which Muslims claim is an addition to the original gospels of Mark, Matthew, Luke and John.
In line with Islamic belief, the Gospel treats Jesus as a human being and not a God.
Serious interest: The Vatican, under Pope Benedict XVI, is said to want to see the recently re-discovered Bible
Historic: The £14million handwritten gold lettered tome is penned in Jesus’ native Aramaic language
It rejects the ideas of the Holy Trinity and the Crucifixion and reveals that Jesus predicted the coming of the Prophet Muhammad.
In one version of the gospel, he is said to have told a priest: ‘How shall the Messiah be called? Muhammad is his blessed name’.
WHO WAS ST BARNABAS?
Born in Cyprus as Joseph, Barnabas was an Early Christian later named an apostle.
His story appears in the Acts of the Apostles, and Paul mentions him in some of his epistles.
The date, place, and circumstances of his death are historically unverifiable.
But Christian tradition states that he was martyred at Salamis, Cyprus.
He is traditionally identified as the founder of the Cypriot Church, with his feast day on June 11.
And in another Jesus denied being the Messiah, claiming that he or she would be Ishmaelite, the term used for an Arab.
Despite the interest in the newly re-discovered book, some believe it is a fake and only dates back to the 16th century.
The oldest copies of the book date back to that time, and are written in Spanish and Italian.
Protestant pastor İhsan Özbek said it was unlikely to be authentic.
This is because St Barnabas lived in the first century and was one of the Apostles of Jesus, in contrast to this version which is said to come from the fifth or sixth century.
He told the Today Zaman newspaper: ‘The copy in Ankara might have been written by one of the followers of St Barnabas.
‘Since there is around 500 years in between St Barnabas and the writing of the Bible copy, Muslims may be disappointed to see that this copy does not include things they would like to see.
‘It might have no relation with the content of the Gospel of Barnabas.’
Theology professor Ömer Faruk Harman said a scientific scan of the bible may be the only way to reveal how old it really is.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2105714/Secret-14million-Bible-Jesus-predicts-coming-Prophet-Muhammad-unearthed-Turkey.html
I was just wondering if anyone had read this article yet & if so what your thoughts are?
Warm & loving regards,
Daz
Hi, has nobody got any opinions on this article, I found it very interesting but strange at the same time.
Warm & loving regards,
Daz
Daz are you referring to the article you posted about manuscripts found in Turkey?
I read it and I would consider where it came from and the time period. As photo shop is so real I could imagine scrolls etc being produced to support an ideology. It was an interesting read for me. I don’t know much about Muhammad. The Dala Lama and the man that Martin Luther King Jr. patterned his movement after were all great men and contributed something to society. What the followers are like now is no tribute to him.
Just as the European nations were no tribute to Jesus they ruled with Feudal power under the Pope and state system.
I still read but deflect to the Bible itself as a true guide and there may always be a chance that there will appear some lost manuscripts that we might have to examine like all the Lost Dead Sea Scrolls. Thanks for posting it. Doesn’t it feel good to be able to read what you want? Not have all the books and mountain of magazines monthly guiding what you think or have time to read. The internet is a blessing for me. Take Care.
Thankyou for your reply Jaqueline. Yes it is refreshing to be able just read what we want rather than being told to only read the WT etc. You made some very good references.
Warm & loving regards,
Daz
Hi Daz,
I noticed no one else commenting on your post. This is an interesting article if nothing else. If you look at the comments to the article on the site they overwhelmingly seem to want to believe in it. Those that have questions have their post “disliked” more than “liked”.
Now, my opinion. Our Scriptures are what they are because our God has made sure of it. (I am talking about the original languages and not the translations.) Any other “scriptures/books” found out there MAY have “some” truth to them but may be full of falsehoods. For this reason our Lord has seen to it they are not part of his Holy Word. Just what part of these books may contain truths is not known. We should be very careful in falling for the trap of wondering. The adversary can be very tricky! All we need is contained in our Holy Scriptures as ordained by God.
So, looking at and reading articles like the one you sited is fine in my opinion. I read them myself. But I refuse to let the adversary tempt me into believing something that is not Scripturally sound doctrine. Again, this is my opinion.
In Christ,
Chuck
Hi there Chuck, thankyou for your reply. I agree with you, I feel that the Bible is all we need, there are many false things out there to try & stumble us. There is no REAL proof how old the book is & seems some-what contradictive scriptually.
Warm & loving regards,
Daz
Hi everyone, I am just double checking, to become a Bible student are there any requirements of code of conduct I should know about, because if you have read my shortened version of my story & experiences with the Jw Organisation you will know why I am asking this especially regarding getting baptized into Christ Jesus.
Warm & loving regards,
Daz
To be a Bible Student, the main requirements are a loving heart and a strong personal desire to be obedient to God’s Word as your personal study and conscience dictates.
thankyou kindly Peter, I guess I ready to become a Bible student then! 🙂
Peter- I have been reading and listening to manny of the Articles on this site. I have a question! Do bible students believe that the 1,000 yr reign of Christ began along with his parousia in 1874? Making sure that is what I’m understanding!
Brettstone – Bible Students today are split on whether the 1,000 year reign has begun. The topic requires deep study. I personally do believe the 1,000 years has begun. I do not think Rev 20 requires that the bride of Christ be complete for the 1,000 to begin, even though on it’s face the passage appears to say that.
Not only does Christ’s reign include blessing mankind. I believe it also includes the gradual destruction of the present systems of things, Satan being the god of this present crumbling world.
To Dupin
I do have that CD, but have not touched it today. The only thing I touched was A old W.T. SITE OF 1913. THE REST IS FROM MY THINKING AND I AM NOT very smart, I apologize to Chuck, I temporarily forgot how to spell it. I had it Chuch, and new something was wrong, so I scrolled back up and saw the k. Embarrassing, but you got me pegged way wrong. But that doesn’t mean I hope you don’t find salvation. I try to desire it for all mankind.
Very nice talking to you and will look with great anticipatation for your Gentile Times part.
Hank
For JWs who comes here / a testimony of a person who loves Jehovah God :
Quote:
“It’s truly ironic that for 17 years, I was vigilant in avoiding any sort of political and/or nationalistic demonstration of allegiance or loyalty for fear of committing idolatry; and yet for 17 years, I made sacrifices, not to God, but to an image –a religious organization.”
END quote.
more here
http://4womaninthewildernessforum.yuku.com/topic/29/Waiting-for-DF-Announcement
rus v.
Rus Virgil, thanks for the link. I have talked with her many times, she is a gem and so full of love and connection to Christ. I will be near her after the general convention, I think I will call her and seek to visit in person so that we can encourage each other.
To Peter
I do study the Bible.
Hank
Hank – I am glad you study the Bible and that at times you can help to provide and represent a JW perspective. We want JWS to feel free to communicate here. Thanks for sticking with us!
To Peter
In your post you had a few questions that you speculate on. The Pastor may be able to help you.
Rev. 21:3, Tabernacl, God’s dwelling, the glorified Church. T76; R2832:6
Destruction of the flesh upon the “great company”…But eventually shall stand on the same footing as other men.
The Tabernacle of God [God’s dwelling, the glorified Church] is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall become his people, and God himself shall be with them and be their God. Re, 21:3-5
Blessing will result from the establishment of God’s residence, or sanctuary, among men.
Mankind will approach God as Israel approached the typical Tabernacle and Temple in their religious services. R2832 PAGE 200
God will dwell in his glorious city or government. It will be his temple-mankind will approach it.
And will saints materialize? Here is what the Pastor wrote, “The glorious city will not be visible tot he natural eye-neither Christ nor the saints in glory can be seen of men.”
Paul’s being blinded will not be needed. He was a chosen one, with a big assignment.
Angels showing up with Abraham and Lot. Those also will not need to be done. Getting information to the people. Jehovah did it many times without and special thing taking place, he has the power.
When Jesus appeared for forty days, it was the start of the Church, won’t be needed.
To feed people. Manna can fall from the sky if God wants.
Mankind will simply look at the sky and see maybe clouds, if not, a blue sky.
Hope this helps your speculation.
Hank
But here is something you can speculate on. Serving face to face the One who created everything. WOW!!!
Hank – Thanks. Great quotes. Very helpful. I am beginning to worry about you. You are starting to sound more and more like a Bible Student. LOL
To Victor Field
Your knowledge of that was good. Those were words spoken by me to you. Praise for your knowledge. Does not sound like flogging to me. The Post was then about anointed ones who received Paul’s letter.
Sorry you felt that way,
Hank
Hank
After reading your last message, I obviously misinterpreted/misunderstood the meaning of your message.
I read it as being negative towards me.
The flogging has turned out to be quite pleasant
Thank-you for your kind words, I hope we can encourage each other further
Victor
Victor, I just saw this answer to Hank. Let us review what you said and respond. I overlooked this because the waters were so muddy that we discussed this at our ecclias Wednesday night.
I am home now and have a computer. I was babysitting for family that were entertaining the many delegates from the international convention. I had four little ones and I am 65 (just think about it). lol
Most of my family members are witnesses although some of the 30 and 40 year olds have found their way out.
Our mother and father (nine children) would not approve of us breaking up the family because some chose to worship differently as they have left the witnesses at times and our relatives were not witnesses.
So I do what I can to help them enjoy their convention and helped and listened to siblings tell me about their convention in yet another city and perform a few tasks for them while they are away.
We are trying to keep our families together by tolerance.
So that is why I didn’t see this comment. Give us a minute to go back and review this.
Jacqueline
Yes I know how you feel, I have two girls under 4yrs old
the first message was in relation to Rev 6:11 and the chosen resting a while
Okay thanks I have alerted Br. Peter to your post. Also a Dupin is looking at all the post made to and from you and Hank.
I am not the heavy hitter on this site I am just like a monitor and I alert Br. Peter. He is also answering on the contact form and might miss a point. I totally missed this, we would have responded in a second please forgive us. The brothers are reading the post carefully now to see what was transpiring as Br. Peter was answerering Brettstone.
BTW our hits on this site are sky high during these last conversations, this is unusual for the summer so the brothers will clear up the responses.
Two girls under 4, wow. I had children in 1970,73,74,75 (lost 73) and i understand you have your hands full. Age is on your side. My daughter in law walked in and couldn’t belive I had cooked macaroni and cheese plus spaghetti and potatoes in one meal. She and my son laughed as I was taking orders like a restaurant as the 10month old clung to me. Looking back I can imagine why they were laughing.
But now I am back with a computer and no baby on my lap. See you in a bit as we go back thru.
PS: I don’t know if you have seen the Ninja Turtles movies? Well they are effective in their approach and on websites the apologist use those tactics. Other sites that are trying to help witnesses have to deal with this also. They are using the approach now as one elder just told me to quote Br. Russell and evade the questions. This makes some think they are bible students but they are really copying and pasting almost not really attuned to what Br. Russell wrote. They pretend to be Bible Students then like the Ninjas clip you.lol
I am very pleased the hits went up, and people have enquired on the questions Brettstone made, it serves as an excellent witness to all on Gods word.
BTW I have another daughter aged 24
I am sorry for this agitation, i am purely thinking of others, as it takes courage for some to make a comment.Even though we may not agree with comments from others there is a loving code we can all follow.
Whoa! 24 to 4, I think there is a cause to keep you in my prayers.(:)
We so appreciate you bring ing this to our attention as it is all overseed (is that even a word?0 by the holy spirit. Now others will not be afraid to comment for fear of being shut down. I am still reviewing as Br. Peter and others are the comments from last week, reading each one.
And we have to show love to one another but be firm and not afraid to address something that we know will harm the poor ones just trying to get some answers. We don’t try to indoctrinate you to be a BS, it is not a joinable organization with by laws in the baptism questions. We invite association as we all discuss and try to dig into the deep things of God and the not so deep.
24 to 4, I am still trying to process that.(:)
Jacqueline
Thats it precisely, those who come along looking for truth and a warm reception, and a happy welcoming comment.
Could I ask a question, please
If one speaks contrary to your believed and fundamental doctrine,with the scriptures,keeping it all with in the context of the scriptures, and shows a teaching/doctrine to be a wrong thought on your part, how would you respond? Would you address the point shown by announcement, and follow new direction,or would your conduct and decision making as a body be like that of the Jw Org?
Hello Victor!
You ask some interesting questions. That is the wonderful thing about this site and the Bible Students in general.
To start with, there are other Bible Students that I discuss various Scriptures with. We do not all have the same understanding of them. That is fine. There are certain fundamental doctrines that we can all agree on. They are the important ones such as the Ransom for all. When there is a difference in understanding it promotes vigorous study and that is a good thing. We should all be doing more of it.
Many can and do use the Scriptures to promote their ideas instead of letting the Scriptures speak for themselves. Watch out for that. When a decision is made as a body, as you stated the JW’s do (and most organized religions), be wary of an agenda.
Otherwise ask a lot of questions and do a lot of studying of the Scriptures and don’t let anyone stop you from doing just that.
In Christ,
Chuck
Chuck
Thanks for your comment
It is very true with what you say, about independant prophets who promote their own thoughts as truth, and it is very hard to reason with them, as they have deep insight on scripture and clever manipulation of them.
By letting the scriptures speak for themselves, it may promote a discussion in the near future
Thankyou
Chuck
The near future is here for my question.
I need help to broaden my own understanding, and also find something personal to me.
Class this as Nebuchadnezzar’s dream, I am aiming towards finding the correct interpretation and meaning to this passage of scripture below,particularly vrs 9,10.., that means using the bible(solely),and keeping within scriptural context on all thoughts put forward with associated scripture. (No personal ideas)
Rev 13:…8 All who dwell on the earth will worship him, everyone whose name has not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who has been slain. 9If anyone has an ear, let him hear. 10If anyone is destined for captivity, to captivity he goes; if anyone kills with the sword, with the sword he must be killed. Here is the perseverance and the faith of the saints.
Please invite others that you study with
Or to any that can assist me
Thanks Victor
Victor,
I will bring this up with our Revelation study group and get back to you.
Take care,
In Christ,
Chuck
Chuck
Thankyou, much appreciated.
Victor, strange I just was reading this last night in Beauties of the truth vol 25, Number 1, February 2014.
Victor it was hard for me to understand what “Freedom and Liberty in Christ” meant at first when associating again with the Bible Students. We don’t control thoughts, many see a different aspect to a scripture and can downright not agree. We do hold certain doctrines in common. The Ransom for all is chief of this and others. If one chose not to believe in certain doctrines it would only probably affect his being voted in as an elder in his local ecclias. His fellowship isn’t affected. The different ecclias are autonomous, they decide their meetings, we vote on our study material whether for instance we will have an meeting next week as it is the General convention. We voted to have it. It has nothing to do with Dallas Texas, Chicago or detroit they are autonomous. You can only announce to the ones in your ecclias as it won’t affect any one elses. We have not body only elders and the whole congregation is in on decision making. Like the scripture they use to show there was a governing body in the first century. It actually shows the whole association as coming in on the decision to clear up what the brothers from Jerusalem was spreading on certain issues.
To help you understand, do you have baptist religion in your country? If so you notice that each church stands alone but they come together in conventions.
But the Catholic, Jehovah witnesses, Mormans just to name a few have a centralized decision making body.
As a new one I said stupid stuff when I first started attending. Now I look back and say wow they never came out and corrected me, they let me learn by listening and studying on my own.
For instance one really stupid thing I said was Jesus had a warrior bride and the angels fight with him at armageddon. The Bible actually says he speaks with the sword coming out of his mouth. The heavenly host are his flankmen but JW taught that they are fighting their head off. Jesus spoke to the wind and said “HUSH”. (I actually realized this by listening to a sermon from David Jeremiah) I have had to learn the power of Jesus. I understood why I got silence and a smile only from my brothers. Dr. Jeremiah knew something JW didn’t about the sword of his mouth.
The Bible students have some ecclias that might be a little conservative and some more vocal and what a wonderful song this makes to have different attributes come together.
They are a peacable people but not timid. They listen more than they talk. But when they speak they use the scriptures in a kind and gentle manner.
Now I have to admit something here. I sometimes slip back into my JW ways but I am working on it every day. 61years as a JW and only 4 in association with my brothers you can see what I have to overcome.
I have no fear when I say something stupid and I do all the time. One brother said he has seen me progress and grow. Br. Peter very gently offer correction all the time and I love it for I have learned at an excellerated speed with this help.
You can draw your own conclusion on a scripture and the others may not have even thought about it and you will be sitting and hear a brother use the thought. They listen and check the scripture to see if that thought is there. I hope I gave an over view. Take Care
Thankyou again for your time and consideration, your overview was very well presented.
I was brought up as a witness from 4-5yrs of age and took leave in 94-95.
As i said to Gus when i feel i am ready i would like to start some discussion with you, in the near future.
Until then you take care also,its been a joy speaking to you
I have enjoyed indeed. Also to the extreme right there is this link, it has Revelation 6:11 and what Br. Russell said and the reference reasoning on it. I use this book all the time to help me study.
https://www.friendsofjehovahswitnesses.com/wp-content/uploads/EXPANDED-COMMENTS-1879-1916-New-Cover.pdf Put page 4855 in the upper left hand corner.
It seems a lot of people got out before I did. You are considered a born in at that age.
What caused you to leave? Was it just non interest or did you see the scriptural inconsistences. Armageddon and the Nation of Israel were mine. I for 30yrs felt Abraham would have been hurt when he found out God didn’t keep his word with his friend that the actual nation of Israel would inherit All the Land promised and they would be his witnesses. In 2004 while studying the Isaiah book written by JW, I saw they were not telling the truth about Isael.
If you don’t want to share that or you have already (point me to it) I will understand.
Jacqueline
Does the B S have an anointed?
Victor we see that Jesus offered the high calling to his disciples the person that came to be called Christians. Therefore we are all running for the upward prize as that is what Christian look for, so yes those that are consecrated are what a witness would call anointed.
My experience with the Holy Spirit is without a shadow of a doubt that I was called to Christ. It was almost tangible, but my dreams and hope is not earth anymore but heaven. It is like I can’t envision living on earth at all anymore and it is not because of the teachings of the Bible Students. It came after I removed myself physically from the org and the scriptures opened up.
Now you might see why I don’t want to stumble any of God’s people, I want to make my calling to Christ sure if I can and maybe he accept me into his kingdom. There are many called but few chosen.
The great crowd is also seen in heaven as the attendants to the bride and as the temple workers. I will put the links on this site for you to read to understand.
I am equal to the other body members of Christ although a female. I can’t be an elder etc as this is what Jehovah laid out in setting up this new arrangement in Christ. But as a part of the body I must accept, which I did and now live up to it. I will post the links in a minute, I am on a convention hook up and also was talking to a fellow xwitness brother in Sweden on a Blue Button hook up so I need to close a few programs. Be right back. Conventions are listed on a calendar under conventions on this site.
These are the links Victor. https://www.friendsofjehovahswitnesses.com/category/the-anointed/
Thanks again
To Victor Field
Thanks for your feedback. Mat 24:36, “Concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father.” Your knowledge of that was good.
And for anyone thinking to say what year it is coming now, they may want to consider Mat. 24:22, “In fact, unless those days were cut short, no flesh would be saved; but on account of the chosen ones those days will be cut short.”
Daniel 12:11 shows that to be during the last days. Also Jesus showed chosen ones would escape Jerusalem in 70 C.E. By saying, “However, when you see Jerusalem surrounded by encamped armies, then know that the desolating of her has drawn near.”
Notice how Jesus ties in then and the future with Luke’s account. At the end of the paragraph in verse 24, “until the appointed times of the nations are fulfilled.”
That ended about Oct. 1st 1914. Jesus Christ was crowned king!!! Rev. 11:15; 6:2, “And I saw, and look! a white horse, and the one seated on it had a bow; and a crown was given him, and he went out conquering and to complete his conquest.” Who was that? Rev. 19:11, “I saw heaven opened, and look! a white horse. And the one seated on it is called Faithful and True, and he judges and carries on war in righteousness.” Verse 13 says, “he is called by the name The Word of God.” Remember John 1:1? It referred to Jesus as the Word!
Jesus did give a clue though. He said it would be like the days of Noah. Remember it took decades to build the ark. But seven days before the flood they were told to go in the ark. If the wicked world wanted to destroy them, they could not, they had Jehovah’s protection. They had seven days to laugh at Noah and his family. So if it is going to be like the days of Noah, there will be a cut off and a tribulation.
Each person will look at what they decided to do with their lives. That’s why the Bible says, “Draw close to God, and he will draw close to you.
And remember the Hebrews in Jerusalem? Did they all get out? Consider the condition of some when they got the letter from Paul in 65 C.E. a year before they had about a two to three week window to flee.
Heb. 5:12, “For although by now you should be teachers, you again need someone to teach you from the beginning the elementary things of the sacred pronouncements of God and you have gone back to needing milk, not solid food.
What part of the Bible makes it look like many of them needing milk did not make it?
And those having insight among the people will impart understanding to the many, and they will be made to stumble by sword and by flame, by captivity and plundering, for some days. But when they are made to stumble, they will be given a little help; and many will join with them by means of smooth speech. And some of those having insight will be made to stumble, in order to do a refining work because of them and to do a cleansing and a whitening until the time of the end.”
The good news there is found with these words before it. “But the people who know their God will prevail and act effectively.”
Think of those milk Hebrews, what could they do? Paul at Heb. 13:7,17 and 24 gives the answer. The question is did they?
Hank
Hank
Thanks for the flogging,you gave me!!
Victor- we need to exchange email addresses! I will put half on this site and the other portion on the other site we talk on!
Powersinspec
Hello both Hank and Victor:
First thing Br. Victor, don’t take Hank so seriously. He is here but for one thing, to distract folks engaged in serious bible discussion with the superficial understandings of the Witnesses. As most JW apologists. he does have the Watchtower library disc at his finger tips just as I do, which enables him to have the material which seems to support his conclusions so that he overwhelms people with material.
Keep an eye out, Hank, because I’m going to prepare a comment on the Gentile Times especially with you in mind and post it.
You are welcome Peter;
Vol. V. Of the Studies had this. They will not have life in themselves, but will still be dependent upon God’s provision of food, etc., for the sustenance of life. Compare Rev. 21:4,6,8;7:16; Mat. 5:6.”
Found it interesting the Pastor connecting Rev. 21:4 with Rev. 7:16.
Hank