Most Christians believe the New Covenant promised to Israel was transferred to spiritual Israel, the Church. Yet if God made an unconditional promise to natural Israel, to break it would make him a liar. It is impossible for God to lie (Heb 6:18). Without realizing it, many well meaning Christians have made God out to be a liar.
Jer 31:31-34 says, “31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: 32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: 33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. 34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more. (KJV)
This text can only apply to natural Israel, not the Christian church.
- Vrs. 31: Covenant made with house of Israel and house of Judah.
- Vrs. 32: Won’t be like covenant they broke after coming out of Egypt [Not true of Christian church. The Christian church never came out of Egypt].
- Context verifies natural Israel is being spoken of…
Jer 31:27-28: 27 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will sow the house of Israel and the house of Judah with the seed of man, and with the seed of beast. 28 And it shall come to pass, that like as I have watched over them, to pluck up, and to break down, and to throw down, and to destroy, and to afflict; so will I watch over them, to build, and to plant, saith the LORD. (KJV)
The Christian church was never plucked up and thrown down and destroyed by the Lord. These words can only apply to natural Israel.
Jer 31:35-37: 35 This is what the LORD says, he who appoints the sun to shine by day, who decrees the moon and stars to shine by night, who stirs up the sea so that its waves roar– the LORD Almighty is his name: 36 “Only if these decrees vanish from my sight,” declares the LORD, “will the descendants of Israel ever cease to be a nation before me.” 37 This is what the LORD says: “Only if the heavens above can be measured and the foundations of the earth below be searched out will I reject all the descendants of Israel because of all they have done,” declares the LORD. (NIV)
Israel will never cease to be a nation as long as the sun, moon and stars shine. God will never reject Israel since on Paradise Earth, the sun, moon and stars will continue to shine.
To Peter
Then one group of anointed who believe they are in the New Covenant and the other who believe they are not are faced with the fact that one group will not be a part of the bride? Because they are guided by the Holy Spirit.
And the Holy Spirit does not have the ability to have men lead the bride class with the same teachings?
Acts 6:1-6?
hank
Hank – God gave us all a conscience, but we have free will, are born sinners and possibly misled by the god of this world, Satan. There is no problem with the conscience God gave people. However, people often don’t follow it, whether intentionally or not.
There is no problem with the Holy Spirit. Sadly the foolish virgins ((Matt 25) had not developed enough of it. Though the Holy Spirit guides us, the human will, fallen nature and even lack of effort can all become obstacles. The well developed New Creature can overcome these obstacles with God’s help and learn a more accurate understanding of the Truth and a more Christ like character.
To Peter
Quite a long read. But the Christian Bible Students of Australia from Melbourne say this. 3. “the New Covenant made by God with individual believers in Him through Jesus Christ.”
Then they say, “The New Covenant is the means through which the kings and priests as heirs of God and joint-heirs with Jesus Christ are being developed and the promised blessings of “all the families of the earth” will be achieved.”
So the big series of questions comes.
1. Can those who believe they are now in the New Covenant, and those who do not, both go to heaven to rule as kings and priests? Rev. 20:6
2. Seeing how both groups serve God closely the same way. Conventions, printed publications, dvd,s, web sites. Will, possibly God take some from both groups and the rest as great crowd of heavenly assistants?
3.Will it cause a problem if both rule from heaven with the earthly subjects? Example, group one wants to do it this way, group two want to do it that way, causing problems on earth.
4. This group has had many contacts from prominent Bible Students that you possibly know. Have you heard of the dvd the advocates 1909-1944?
As always take care
Hank
P.S. When will the discourses be available on your site here?
Hank – It is not for me to judge who will be part of the bride of Christ and on what bases. As each of our gifts vary, God may expect more out of some than others (I.e. Matt. 25 parable of Talents). Perhaps I will be surprised to find out who makes it and where I end up. In any case we can all rejoice that God knows our hearts and will make all the right decisions.
As you know Hank, there will not be conflict in the heavenly body of Christ. Jesus prayed that we would be one with him just as he is one with the Father (John 17:21) If he needs to correct any doctrinal errors, any member of the 144,000 will submit to the correction and not debate with the Lord. Hence there will be full harmony.
The JW organization believes unity must be enforced and directed by the Governing Body. I beleive that the truly anointed are sufficiently of one mind, guided by the Holy Spirit, that no central organization is necessary.
To Peter;
The Bible Students in part of Australia believe Jer. 31-40 is foretold for the anointed, the ones to be kings and priests. This new covenant put into effect by Jesus Christ.
Is that what you Bible Students believe?
Hank
Hank – Many Bible Students in Australia would agree with other Bible Students that the New Covenant is to be made with Natural Israel, not the annointed. Find more here:
To Peter and Dupin and others;
Lots of verses for you all to look up.Ro 11:26,2:29,9:6,8,and 9:26. Gal 3:29,4:26,6:16. Is 54:13. John 6:45. Jer 31:34. Hen 8:10l10:14,16,17,19,22,23. Is 56:5–Rev 3:13 and 3:5.
And then ask yourself. Was I taught by the Father? Is my mind fleshly? Or taught by the Father? So it is as thought he wrote it on my jeart and mind?
Is there any chance I coulf fall into this predictument? Mt 24:24,25,”cor there shall arise false Christ’s, and false prophets, and they shall give great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray,if ssible, also the chosen. Lo, I did tell you before hand.
Christ’s means anointed. And this was given by Jesus as to the end times. Who are the wrong anointed and who are the right ones?
Have you had all your sins blotted out? Have you been sanctified? Have you been taught by the Father? Have you been made and declared righteous?
Thank you for following along. I will close with Peter’s words. That Peter on the site here.
“e must put aside pride of our own superior wisdom(???) and humbley be prepared to accept the teachings of the scriptures over that of man.”
Hank
Hank,
Okay. You are right. Jesus cleanses us from sin.
1Jo 1:7 (NKJV) “… the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.”
Re 1:5 (NKJV) “…Jesus Christ …. who loved us and washed us from our sins in His own blood,”
However, Jesus will cleanse the world of mankind from sin in the earthly kingdom right?
Zeph 3:8-9 –”I will restore to the peoples a pure language, That they ALL may call on the the LORD,”
Isa 29:18, 24 – Deaf will hear, blind will see. Those who erred will understand.
Isa 26:9 – “when Your judgments are in the earth, The inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.”
Phil 2:9-11 – EVERY knee should bow…and EVERY tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,
Rev 15:4 – all nations shall come and worship before You..” NKJV
Dan 7:14, 27 – “ALL peoples, nations, and languages should serve Him” His kingdom is everlasting
So does the New Covenant of Jeremiah apply both the world and the Church (anointed Christians/144,000)? Yes, to Israel and the world. No, not the Church.
Jer 31:31, 32: “Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a New Covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah; Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD.”
This passage provides three facts that show it cannot apply to the Church.
1) It refers back to the Old Law Covenant that God had made with Israel when he led them out of Egypt. Yet God never made an old covenant with the Church when he led them out of the world.
2) It also states that they broke the Covenant. The Church didn’t break any previous covenant with God.
3) It speaks of God as having been a husband to Israel while they were under the Old Covenant. God was never previously a husband to the Church under some old covenant.
To Dupin and Peter and others. Dupin were you at the weel end convention,11th and 12th. Larry had a part.
This next part I beleve puts the 144,000 and earthly group in it. Mt 20:28,”and to give his life a ransom for many.”
1 Tim 2:5,6,”for one is God,one also is mediator of God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself a ransom for all.”
1 John 2:1,2,”and if any one may sin, an advocate we have with the Father, a righteous one, and he–he is a propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the whole world.”
Heb 7:25,”whence also he is able to save to the very end, those coming through him unto God–ever living to make intercession for them.”
8:34,”who is at the right hand of God-who also doth intercede for us.”
Heb 7:22,”by show much of a better covrnant hath Jesus surety.”
Do we believe in agreement. That Jesus can save the 144,000 and those not of the group as long as they are approaching God throught him?
Hank
To Peter and Dupin and others;
Gal 3,19,22,24,29,”till the seed might come to which the promise hath been made. That the promise by faith of Jesus Christ may be given to those believing. That by faith we might be declared righteous. And aacording to promise heirs.”
3:17,”A covenant confirmed before by God to Christ.”
This promise to Spiritual Israel. 2 Cor 6:16,”I shall reside among them and walk among them, and I shall be their God, and they will be my people.” He is talking about the 144,000.
Hank
To Peter and Dupin and others;
On the last one it was mentioned that Gal 6:15,16, referred to Spiritual Israel not fleshly Israel. Pages 204 and 205 from Vol II reads,”Paul designates the Jewish Church”Israel after the flesh,”and the Christian Church”The Israel of God.”(1 Cor. 10:18; Gal 6:16.) We may therefore properly desinate them Fleshly Israel and Spiritual Israel. The higher plane of the spiritual house is also pointed out by the Apostle when he describes Fleshly Israel as a house[family] of servants, and a Spiritual Israel as a house pf sons.(Heb.3:5,6; Rom.8:14.)
So it is good to remember 4555:1 said,”that the covenant deals with a nation.”
Gal 3:18,”For if by law be the inheritence, it is no more by promise, but to Abraham through promise did God grant it.”
Carefully see if you see who might benefit from the promise. Gen 22:17,”That blessing I bless thee, and multiplying I multiply thy seed as stars of the heavens, and as sand which is on the seashore; and thy seed doth possess the gate of his enimies.”
Note,”thy seed,” and again,”thy seed.” There would be alot of them, and they can win over the enimies.
So the big question. Who else would benefit? The whole earth of mankind. Verse 18.
So the promise is to thy seed, and all mankind will benefit from that seed.
To Peter and Dupin and others;
That direction is coming up in a little while. My last 4:7 was really 5:7 from Galatians. Sorry!
Consider this. “that the covenant deals with a nation.” (4555:1) Law covenant=God——–Fleshly Israel Deut 5:2; Ex 19:5,6. Heb 9:19-28 a must read. Heb 9:7; 7:27,28.
144,000 In covenant with God——–Spiritual Israel Galatians 6:15,16.
Hi Peter-well spoken-great verse-one big problem!
All the verses except the proverb were not written yet and the Galatians didn’t have them. They probaly had the Old Testament because Paul was reasoning using it.
I have saved your coment withh the three ??? in it. If that truth was so easy as Proverbs 9:10 why did Paul say at Gal 4:7,”Who did hinder you–not to obey the truth?” Remember these potenial heirs were thoughtless—-not thinking—thus not obeying—-thus not in the truth. They could probaly tell you Proverbs 9:10, but they had been charmed away from the truth and thus were disobedient to the truth.
Remember what one wise politician asked? What is truth?
I thank you for bearing with me as we have a ways to go before it will appear more clear to you.
Hank
Hank – I think your underlying message is the question, how do we know we are obeying or following the Truth. Here are scriptures that offer help:
Proverbs 9:10 (NKJV) “The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom, And the knowledge of the Holy One is understanding.”
Luke 11:9,13 (NASV) “9 “So I say to you, ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you… 13…how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him?”
John 17:17 (NASV) “Sanctify them in the truth; Your word is truth.”
Heb 11:6 (NASV) “And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him”
1 John 2:16 “For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh and the lust of the eyes and the boastful pride of life, is not from the Father, but is from the world.”
We must recognize Jehovah/Yahweh as the source of all Truth through His Word, the Bible.
We must put aside pride of our own superior wisdom(???) and humbly be prepared to accept the teachings of the scriptures over that of man.
Titus 1:9 “Holding fast the faithful Word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers…whose mouths must be stopped” (Titus:1:9-11). We can only refute those with a different point of view if we listen to and understand their perspective and the scriptural support they bring. When we open up like that, maybe we will discover we are the gainsayer being refuted. The point is to have solid scriptural grounding in whatever we believe and have a strength of conviction based on that.