According to the book, “Pastor Russell – Founder of the Bible Students,” published by Bible Students Christian Classics:
So what did happen in 1914? Is there any evidence to support or deny the position of Pastor Russell? The outbreak of an unprecedented world war caused the following reaction from the publisher of a noted periodical. The August 30, 1914, issue of The World Magazine in a feature article about Bible Student predictions reported:
The terrific war outbreak in Europe has fulfilled an extraordinary prophecy. For 25 years Bible Students have been proclaiming to the world that the Day of Wrath prophesied in the Bible would dawn in 1914. The Bible speaks of a “time of trouble such as never was since there was a nation.” This prophecy of Daniel Bible Students identify as the “Day of Wrath,” the “Time of the Lord,” and the so-called “End of the World,” references which are plentiful in the Scriptures.
Historians have much to say about that eventful year 1914. The following is a part of the historical record.
Edmond Taylor while quoting Arnold Toynbee said:
“Looking back from the vantage point of the present we see that the outbreak of World War I ushered in a twentieth-century “Time of Troubles”… from which our civilization has by no means yet emerged. Directly or indirectly all the convulsions of the last half century stem back to 1914: the two World Wars, the Bolshevik Revolution, the rise and fall of Hitler, the continuing turmoil in the Far and Near East, the power-struggle between the communist world and our own. More than 23,000,000 deaths can be traced to one or the other of these upheavals.”
Britannica Great Books, THE GREAT IDEAS TODAY:
“A world mesmerized by Science and progress mocked the mysticism of religious sects which had long predicted that the world would end in the year 1914; fifty years later the world isn’t so sure that it didn’t end in 1914.”
OXFORD HISTORIAN AND BIOGRAPHER:
“If ever there was a year that marked the end of an era and the beginning of another, it was 1914. That year brought to an end the old world with its sense of security and began a modern age whose chief characteristic is insecurity on a daily basis.”
1914 is clearly marked by unbiased historians as the ending of a world. The convulsions since are at once the processes of its disintegration and the birth pains of a new world. Britannica editors, as noted, observed that a religious group (actually known as Bible Students) predicted 1914 would mark the ending of a world in just this manner.
The list of writers describing the unprecedented destructive forces unleashed in 1914 is phenomenal and more continue to add their observations to this day.
In his book, OUT OF CONTROL, Zbigniew Brzezinski, former National Security Advisor and professor of American Foreign Policy at John Hopkins University, notes that the 20th century began amid great hope and promise, but became the century of insanity. In elaborating on his observation of 175 million slaughtered in the name of the “politics of organized insanity,” he says:
“Contrary to its promise, the twentieth century became mankind’s most bloody and hateful century of hallucinatory politics and of monstrous killings. Cruelty was institutionalized to an unprecedented degree, lethality was organized on a mass production basis. The contrast between the scientific potential for good and the political evil that was actually unleashed is shocking. Never before in history was killing so globally pervasive, never before did it consume so many lives, never before was human annihilation pursued with such concentration of sustained effort on behalf of such arrogantly irrational goals.”
These observations of history confirm Pastor Russell’s prediction that the old world began to end in 1914 and is currently being ushered completely out of existence by a consuming process of wars, revolutions and anarchy. The evidence of history clearly teaches that 1914 is the most significant date in modern times as it marks a sharp break with the past. The wars and upheavals, social turmoil and unrest since 1914 are greater, deeper, and more unrelenting than anything mankind has ever experienced. Were Pastor Russell’s expectations then flatly and patently wrong? Was he indeed a false prophet? NO! Pastor Russell was correct concerning 1914 being the beginning of the end. He was indefinite as to the length of this trouble that would terminate our world or social order Without making a prediction, he allowed that it could last a hundred years after 1914. No one has given a better explanation of the events of the 20th century.
Let the reader note that this was not the last word of Pastor Russell on the subject—that the world would end amidst the greatest and most widespread trouble ever before experienced by man. NO! The trouble of the present time and recent past is merely the passing of the old order as a new order of righteousness, peace, and everlasting life is to be ushered in for the benefits and blessing of all the families of the earth who accept and obey God’s words of life. This is the real reason the doomsayers opposed him. Their theology could not accept this good news of the Gospel of the Kingdom for the vast majority of humankind.
To Rus;
What year was Jesus enthroned?
sorry for delay, I observed your question only some minutes before …
the answer: He was enthroned after his resurrection , so in 33 AD / At the Pentecost the apostles were taught By Holy Spirit that He has been enthroned/exalted at His Father’s Right Hand and ruling (only in Heavens) since then .
” Jesus was made King – not at His death , – not at His resurrection , BUT at the moment of His exalting at the right side of Father , on His throne , to be Lord/Prince , as Peter says
Acts 5
30. “The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom you had put to death by hanging Him on a cross.
31. “He is the one whom God exalted to His right hand as a Prince and a Savior, to grant repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins. NASB
31. God exalted Him to His right hand to be Prince and Leader and Savior and Deliverer and Preserver, in order to grant repentance to Israel and to bestow forgiveness and release from sins. AB
compare also with Acts 2:36
Now , at the moment of the discussion between Jesus and Pilate , He wasn’t yet exalted , so, not King yet .
According to Jesus prayer in John 17:5 , Father has raised/resurrected Him/Jesus with the same “glory” He had before
then, it seems that during of the 40 days He was having the same glory as a Heavenly glorified Being ( as He had before ) ,
so , it is wise to think that “the ascension” (in the 40th day) has meant, in fact , His exaltation to a higher position than He had before , that is , to the right side of Father , as King !
So , around the exaltation time He was really made King (enthroned).”
rus v.
For different groups of people 1914 could have some importance.
But for Jehovah God and His Kingdom it had no one .
You may observe that if you give the due attention to the “teaching of Christ” !
http://brothersofchrist.forumsland.com/brothersofchrist-about374.html
Please compare also with:
http://thekingdomwasnotbornin1914.blogspot.ro
rus virgil
1914_2014-07-01a(research-interval).text
I have downloaded electronic versions of Mr Russel’s writings: “Studies in the Scriptures”. This is so that I can thoroughly examine his reasons for arriving at the date 1914. My position on this matter, and indeed any such issue of dates, is that I feel uncomfortable with the idea that these are somehow encoded into the inspired writings. Why so? Jesus own words strongly suggest that such an endeavour would be pointless.
Just the other day I came across an intriguing BBC news item in which the writer tries to explain how certain phrases connected with the “Great War” actually came about. I imagine that you would not share the writers opinion, but offer the link for your scrutiny.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-28057198
In due course, after further research, I will add to my comments and observations. Also, just for reference, I do not “belong” to any religion (did someone once say “Religion is a snare and a racket”?) but I am an independent Christian.
Dimwick
To Dimwick;
After Jesus died, please note the following, “All authority has been given me.” Matthew 28:18
Likely that means the knowledge of him receiving his kingship would come into his possession. With a simple, I am Jehovah and you my only-begotten son will receive the kingship in 1914. Being in heaven would not prevent him from coming down to tell his followers. Plus these prospective joint heirs had no need to know it at that time.
But why didn’t Jesus know how to figure it out like the Bible Students did? And I am referring to the man in 1823 who had amongst others before Brother Russell was even born. But keep in mind, it was Brother Russell pointing a good 28 years to that date, but lacked knowledge as to what would take place.
But the real reason why Jesus did not have enough information from the Scriptures to calculate it, was Revelation was not written yet. 11:2,3;12:6,14 help put it all together. Jesus had been gone from the earth for 63 years. Also keep in mind that Revelation was from God to Jesus and down.
But also remember Jesus was smart enough to know while on earth that Daniel and Ezekiel wrote about the appointed times. Dan. 4:16,23,25,32; Ez. 21:25-27 so Jesus said he acknowledged that, they were still running just by saying what he did at Luke 21:24.
Also consider Paul wrote in Hebrews, showing God’s rest day was still in progress.
And last but least, Jesus said everything he spoke came from the Father. Likewise all Paul’s writings were inspired of the Father. In Daniel chapter 2 Jehovah is made known as a revealer of secrets.
And Amos 3:7 shows he reveals things to his people.
1914_2014-06-28a(opening-questions).text
With reference to the discussion of “What Happened in 1914”, I wish to add some of my own questions/observations, if that is permitted. Although it does look as though the last comment was well over a year ago.
This subject, of the possible significance of the year 1914 as a prophetically important date, seems to attract much comment, indeed it is a core belief of the WTS (Watch Tower Society). That which has prompted me to write these comments is the final remark of Peter K. (admin) in response to Jerome (comment-44029) .
Peter K says: “Yet, consider that not even the Son knew (Mark 13:32). That doesn’t mean that Jesus would never know, any more than it means that we would never know when Jesus had returned and is present.” Whilst this is obviously true, it serves to highlight a problem that appears to have been sidestepped. It is this: “Why was it that Jesus himself, although a remarkable prophet, did not know ‘that day or hour’?” Now just hold that question in mind whilst adding this one: “Where does the WTS get the information by which it calculates the date of 1914?” Can you see the problem?
Also there are these questions to answer: “What is the meaning of the Greek word ‘kairoi’, and the grammar used in Luke 21:24?” This turns out to be a key issue, as this text is used by the WTS as a starting point in their proof. Indeed, I make so bold as to suggest that this single text may have started the search for an end time date! Sad to say, but sometimes the desire to have an answer is so overwhelming that reason is abandoned.
I await your response with interest.
Dimwick
Dimwick – Thanks for your comments and questions. A topic like 1914 is difficult to discuss as most people presume that anyone who identifies an end time date as prophetically significant is a false prophet. So with their mind closed there is usually nothing that can be said.
TIME PROPHECIES
Time prophecies are a deep area of study and CT Russell devoted a significant amount of material to this discussion in volumes 2 & 3 of the Studies in the Scriptures series. What few people take note of is that most of the prophetic dates he identified as dates fulfilled in the past. So the idea that he was a false prophet is based on a false premise. One might argue that he made a mistake in how he historically applied prophecies fulfilled in the past. However, I really don’t hear that type of discussion, because very few people have investigated these prophecies and now anything about them. It is hard to refute something you know nothing about. Interestingly, time prophecies are not something to ignore. Daniel 12 speaks of the 1290 days (years) and 1334 days (years), then says in verses 9-12 that, “the wise will understand.”
THE DAY OR HOUR
Although, Jesus did not know the days or the hour of his return (the Father had not revealed it to him), He and his followers would know the time when returns. So it stands to reason that if he returned in the past, that His followers would be aware of that from the signs he provided.
WATCH FOR HIS COMING OR PRESENCE?
Matt 24:42 (NJKV), “42 Watch therefore, for you do not know what hour your Lord is coming.”
We suggest that what this verse is really saying is that we do not know what hour your Lord will have arrived. Therefore, we should watch so that we can see the signs indicating Jesus is PRESENT.
This word “COMING” (Strong’s 2064. ercomai) is the same used in verse 30 where Jesus is “coming in the clouds.”
However, the difference is that in verse 42, has a Strong’s 5736 “Indicative Mood” word meaning is attached. It has the meaning that the action described has occurred or will occur. It can go either way.
Let’s look at a couple of examples where this word in the “Indicative Mood” does have the thought of having already arrived.
Mt 3:14 “But John tried to prevent Him, saying, “I have need to be baptized by You, and do You COME <2064> (5736) to me?”
Here John is speaking to Jesus who has already arrived, as described by John’s words, “do You come <2064> (5736) to me?”
Matt 26:36 (NKJV) “Then Jesus CAME <2064> (5736) with them to a place called Gethsemane, and said to the disciples, “Sit here while I go and pray over there.”
In this example, Jesus had arrived as Gethsemane.
Consequently, we think that in Matt 24:42, Jesus is telling us to watch so that we can see the signs indicating that Jesus has arrived; that He is PRESENT.
KAIRO
Regarding the Greek word ‘kairoi’ in Luke 21:24, it is not my place to defend a JW view of 1914 that I do not share. What are your thoughts on the word?
1914 – A FALSE PROPHECY?
Rutherford’s Watchtower adopted the 1914 date from Russell, and then changed its meaning. Today’s Watchtower uses 1914 to establish its authority as being selected in the 1918 ending of the period of inspection as the Faithful and Discreet Slave. Those objecting to the Governing Body as the Faithful and Discreet slave naturally want to reject the 1914 date in order to pull the rug from under their feet. However, there is no need to throw out the baby with the bath water. All that is necessary is to demonstrate that the JW Organization misapplies the 1914 prophecy.
There is an inherent problem in an outright rejection of the 1914 date. To reject it, you must conclude that Russell got extremely lucky in selecting one of the most historically prominent dates in history. To illustrate, it is as if Brother Russell were at a roulette table and on the roulette wheel he placed all his chips on 1914. Wow! What a lucky gambler! Is that what we should conclude?
There is no other prominent religious figure in history that was ever able to predict a future date and events from the Bible and get it right to the very year. For his success, Charles Taze Russell thought of by many as a false prophet. Generally the people who say he was wrong blame him for the mistaken predictions of the JW Organization (1925 and 1975) and have never read his works, Volume 2, “The Time is at Hand” and Volume 3, “Thy Kingdom Come.”
Pastor Russell “owned” the Times of the Gentiles concept which identified 1914 as the end of the Times of the Gentiles. In other words, he is the one who taught, promoted and spread the concept worldwide. His reputation would have been severely damaged had nothing happened in 1914. As it turned out:
1) Church/State rule ended
2) European Kings were dethroned forever
3) The European Empires began to lose their colonies
4) WWI lead to the 1917 Balfour Declaration which set aside Palestine as a homeland for the Jews.
Is this all a coincidence? Did C.T. Russell just get lucky?
It is true that Brother Russell expected too much to happen too quickly. Students of prophecy at Jesus first advent, made the same mistake. At the time Jesus was born, people were in expectation of the Messiah (Luke 3:15.) They expected the 70 weeks of Daniel 9, pointed to a Messiah that would immediately defeat the Romans and set up the earthly kingdom (Luke 24:21; Acts 1:6). They were wrong to expect more than the prophecy had promised. Nevertheless, the Seventy Weeks prophecy was correct and did point Messiah, just as the 1914 prophecy was correct and pointed to the breaking up of the world empires, the end of Church-State rule and the soon to be born nation of Israel.
1914 – NATURAL ISRAEL NO LONGER TRODDEN DOWN BY THE GENTILES
Although this is a deep topic and hard to follow without taking the time to study, I will give you a brief summary (see Volume 2 of Studies in the Scriptures)
Luke 21:24 – Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
We arrive at the date 1914 AD as the End of the Gentile Times by performing a time prophecy calculation. The word “times” from Luke 21:24 is the same Greek word for “times” used in Rev 12:14.
Rev 12:14 – she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
In this prophecy each of the 3 ½ times is composed of 360 years for a total of 3 ½ x 360 or 1,260 years (The reign of the Papacy from 539 AD to 1799 AD). So each time in the times of the Gentiles is 360 years. But how many times are there? The answer is found in Lev 26, which speaks of blessings and penalties to Israel for their obedience or disobedience,
Lev 26:18 says -if you will not hearken unto me, then I will punish you seven times more for your sins.
Four times in this chapter the seven times of punishment are mentioned (see also verses 21, 24 and 28). We think the mentioning of these seven times four times alludes to the four Gentile empires that would rule over the Jews, namely, Babylon, Media Persia, Greece and Rome. Verses 31-33 refer to the land being desolate & the Jews being scattered. Since Lev 26 reveals that the number of times is 7 we can arrive at a period of the Time of the Gentiles being 2,520 years. [7 x 360 = 2,520 years]. Starting with 606 BC as the date Jerusalem was overthrown and adding 2,520 years brings us to AD 1914.
The times of the Gentiles ended in 1914 AD with the beginning of World War I. This war led to the Balfour Declaration in 1917 AD which openly encouraged the Jews to immigrate to Palestine. The World Book Encyclopedia sates, “The (Balfour) declaration stated Britain’s support for the creation of a Jewish national home in Palestine, without violating the civil and religious rights of the existent non-Jewish communities.” Page 401 of the book “Jews, God and History” states, “Between 1918 and 1936 about 150,000 Jewish immigrants settled in Palestine, speeding its transformation from desolation to fertility. Towns sprang up in the desert and boomed into cities. Villages, factories, schools and orange groves dotted the formerly barren fields from Haifa to Ascalon.”
Peter K. thank you for taking the time to reply. I appreciate the not inconsiderable effort.
OOPS, I had made no reference to Christ’s invisible presence in my earlier comment, because I felt that to be understood by the audience of mainly of Bible Students and ex- Witnesses. Sorry about that. May I dedicate my final remarks on this subject to brevity and simplicity.
When the Christ ascended his throne in the fall of 1914 most of the anointed saints were dead in their graves, while Christ continued to rule over the remaining ones in the flesh in the Kingdom of the Son of God’s love during his invisible presence Col 1:13.
All the anointed in whatever place yet have wait until he comes back in the manner of turning his attention to gathering all the saints dead and alive to take them home to himself so that where he is they will likewise be for them to become a blessing to all humanity as promised to Abraham:
2 In the house of my Father there are many abodes. Otherwise,
I would have told YOU, because I am going my way to prepare
a place for YOU.
3 Also, if I go my way and prepare a place for YOU, I am coming
again and will receive YOU home to myself, that where I am YOU
also may be.
4 And where I am going YOU know the way.” (John 14:2-4)
Christ’s invisible royal presence was only discernable by those Jehovah had transferred into the Kingdom of the Son of His Love they were in while in the flesh Hebrews 9:28.
This coming again and receiving them home to himself is what Matthew 24:29-31 is all about, whereupon the Kingdom of the 1000 years will have its Genesis.
That’s all. Dieter
The incredible experience of my keyboard trigger-finger itching every time a Bible theme reared its glorious head on the JW-Friend’s site invariably needs sating. This 1914 subject did it once again as the Great Crowd subject shall in another place shortly.
My education under the auspices of the JW admin, ostensibly guided by Jehovah, instructed me that it was in Early October of that year that Gods Kingdom was born with the Christ’s first royal act the casting of Satan and his mates out of Jehovah’s heavenly precinct.
It truly was the end of exclusive Gentile domination on the earth without a king of God’s choosing representing Him here on our beautiful planet, when the Christ was crowned and assumed his rightful throne. The Gentile times had ended alright, but God’s Kingdom was still a few of Jehovah’s minutes away.
My JW teachers asserted that all the dead anointed saints, or separated ones, were resurrected at that time. This presented the insurmountable problem of a grotesque heavenly Bride of Christ with all manner of ‘body’ parts missing, awaiting consummation with her royal groom as soon as the rest of her is delivered. Really?
To support these allegations they misuse portions of 1 Corinthians 15:51-57 and 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 to distort Jehovah’s exquisitely designed purpose and timing of His millennial kingdom.
Perhaps they just do not understand it on the basis of their traditions. Or, on the other hand, they have ever so much to lose, haven’t they? -John 11:47-48.
In 1914 mankind (((Strong’s 3625 ‘inhabited earth’, which was the word John used in Revelation 12:9 to show that the whole inhabited earth, as in the entire world of mankind, were deceived by Satan and not the more narrowly focused 2889 he used in verse 16 of chapter 3 of his Gospel – IMPORTANT!))) entered its final phase of self-rule to demonstrate once and for all that they are systemically unable to govern themselves successfully for their own benefit. As Jesus said Wisdom is proved righteous by its works, by what it has accomplished –Matthew 11:19.
The mess we are in demonstrably proves that as it does Jehovah’s words to Jeremiah 10:23: “I well know, O Jehovah, that to earthling man his way does not belong. It does not belong to man who is walking even to direct his step”
So, finally 1914 saw
1. the end of uninterrupted Gentile domination on earth and
2. The Christ placed on his throne to rule amid his enemies, not his friends, as he would have if the whole kingdom with its full complement of 144000 brothers and friends had been established at that time -Psalm 110:1-4.
For the final instalment that culminates in the actual birth of the Heavenly Kingdom of the 1000 years, please go to the Bible for all the gorgeous details:
Carefully read (Luke 21:24, 27-28) 24 and they will fall by the edge of the sword and be led captive into all the nations; and Jerusalem will be trampled on by the nations, until the appointed times of the nations are fulfilled. 27 And then they will see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28 But as these things start to occur, raise yourselves erect and lift YOUR heads up, because YOUR deliverance* is getting near.”
* That Greek word translated deliverance here and in Romans 8
below is Strong’s
629 apolutrosis
from a compound of 575 and 3083; TDNT – 4:351,*; n f
AV – redemption 9, deliverance 1; 10
1) a releasing effected by payment of ransom
1a) redemption, deliverance
1b) liberation procured by the payment of a ransom
That is when the anointed hand in the token they had received at their anointing, when their Lord appears and sends his angels to gather the dead anointed gone before and an indeterminable number of those last remaining ones on earth:
(Romans 8:23) 23 Not only that, but we ourselves also who have the firstfruits, namely, the spirit, yes, we ourselves groan within ourselves, while we are earnestly waiting for adoption as sons, the release from our bodies by ransom*.
That’s when Paul will hands in his token** for the reality of his ransomed release
**(2 Corinthians 1:21-22) 21 But he who guarantees that YOU and
we belong to Christ and he who has anointed us is God. 22 He has
also put his seal upon us and has given us the token of what is
to come, that is, the spirit, in our hearts.
(2 Corinthians 5:5) 5 Now he that produced us for this very thing
is God, who gave us the token of what is to come, that is, the
spirit.
This is the gathering of the anointed from their graves along with those still alive at that time:
(Matthew 24:29-31) 29 “Immediately after the tribulation*** of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 And then the sign of the Son of man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will beat themselves in lamentation, and they will see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he will send forth his angels with a great trumpet sound, and they will gather his chosen ones together from the four winds, from one extremity of the heavens to their other extremity.
*** upon the Jews only from God via the Romans and others until the
Kingdom is established., but none for mankind which is nought
but a fear-mongering scare tactic by those in power.
This is concurrent with sorting the anointed Kingdom aspirants as reported here in Matthew 25:31-48**** into sheep acceptable for heavenly governance and those wonderful goats who did not quite make it but still have a place on earth along will all those in line to become earth citizens pending their deeds during the 1000 years.
**** nations in verse 31 makes a complete mockery of Christ’s
intentions, for he is only sorting the people in line for
heavenly governance. THERE IS NO JUDGMENT DAY FOR HUMANITY,
other than the 1000 years where all shall be judged for what
they do then and not what they did before their death annulled
all their sins (Romans 6:7).
The following will happen at exactly the same time the above verses are fulfilled:
(1 Corinthians 15:50-52) However, this I say, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit God’s kingdom, neither does corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Look! I tell YOU a sacred secret: We shall not all fall asleep [in death], but we shall all be changed, 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, during the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised up incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
The trumpet here and in Matthew 24:31 makes the same call at the same time to rally the anointed from the four corners of the earth dead or alive to assume their destined thrones for heavenly governance.
If permitted, I shall deal with these last verses and the other relevant 1 Thessalonians 4 ones in the Great Crowd discussion.
Love you all.
Dieter
Dieter – Thanks for sharing your thoughts with us again on the Friends of JWs website. I do not agree with some of your thoughts, but rather than a point by point response, let me just focus on one issue. I think it is pretty clear from several scriptures that there will be a period of time after Jesus second presence begins, that there will be saints on earth, not yet resurrected. To go into great detail would be confusing for some, so I will keep this really simple.
First let me start by saying that a passage you quoted, about our redemption being near (vs 28) is said after Jesus comes in a cloud. (vs 27). This seems to be referring to those who are alive and remain while Jesus is present.
HARVEST
Rev 14:13, 14 – At the point of Jesus return and the beginning of the gospel harvest, as each saint dies from that point on, they rest from their earthly labors, but their works follow them – they continue the harvest work with Jesus in heaven.
Just as Jesus was the chief reaper of the Jewish harvest, and the true spiritual Israelites were gathered out of nominal Israel, than the nation destroyed, the same is True in the Gospel Harvest. Jesus is present as Chief Reaper (Rev 14:14) and the true wheat (spiritual saints) are gathered out of the field with the tares (denominational Christians, then finally the present systems will be destroyed. The Lord’s people today are alive on earth during the presence of their chief reaper, just like during the Jewish harvest.
SLEEPING SAINTS RAISED FIRST
2) 1 Thess 4:16, 17 – The sleeping saints are raised first AFTER that, we who are alive and remain. The word commonly mistranslated “then” means afterwards (Strongs 1899). It is not “together” (Strong’s 260) at the same time, but “together” to the same place. Strongs allows, “denoting close association” and the context verifies this, because we find Paul using Strongs 260 again just a few verses later the word means same place, not same time – 1Th 5:10 “Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together <260> with him.” If it meant same time, then living would not be raised “after.”
DAYS OF NOAH AND APOCALYPSE
The point of comparison with the “Days of Noah” is that the world of mankind in general is not aware that Jesus is present. The whole point of Luke 17 is Jesus’ invisible second presence. In verse 21 (ASV), Jesus says, “The kingdom of God cometh not with observation.” Next Jesus compared his second presence to the gradual sun rising where at dawn it is still dark but gradually becomes lighter. Next he compared his second presence to the days of Noah and Lot where they were going about their daily life routine during the “days of Noah” and the “days of Lot” not expecting the impending flood/fire. The same is true during the “days (presence) of the Son of Man.” Unaware of Jesus presence, the world is going about their daily life routine, not anticipating Armageddon. In Luke 17:30 the word “revealed” is “Apocalypse” in the Greek. This agrees with Old Testament scriptures showing that Jehovah would be revealed to mankind after destroying earths governments and social order and delivering the nation of Israel from a multitude of attacking nations from around the world.
JESUS FOLLOWERS TO BE LOOKING FOR HIS INVISIBLE SECOND PRESENCE
Although it was not for the disciples of the early Church to know the times and seasons, Jesus said to watch so that they would see the signs that would reveal his return at the proper time.
Amos 3:7 (ASV) says, “ Surely the Lord Jehovah will do nothing, except he reveal his secret unto his servants the prophets.)
Some of the Thessalonian brethren were confused, thinking that Jesus had already invisibly returned.
Thessalonians brethren thought Christ may have already returned in their day.
II Th 2:1-2 (NKJV), “1 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come.”
Paul did not want them to be troubled by his 1st letter or any other source into thinking that the day of the Lord (Christ’s 2nd presence) was already at hand. Realizing Christ would return invisibly, some of the Thessalonian brethren thought he had already returned. Paul goes on to show that Christ couldn’t have returned yet, because first the antichrist must arise, then Christ would return.
II Th 2:3 (NKJV) “Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,”
Why didn’t Paul just say, “don’t you remember that I told you in my first letter that Christ would return suddenly and catastrophically? Don’t you recall that I said he would come with a shout and with the sound of a trumpet?” Paul did not use this argument because he wrote of the shout and trumpet symbolically and he used the illustration of the Thief to show how Christ would return unexpectedly and unawares to a world not watching.
To Peter,
Many Bible commentators have come up with dates that they feel is the end of 6000 yrs since Adam’s fall. Just to name a few, Br. Russell felt it was 1874, JW’s think it was 1975, our Br. David Rice, author of the “new chronology”, thinks it will be 2043 (http://2043ad.com/6000years/6000years.htm), I’ll have to wait and see on that one, if I’m still around. I know most BS and JW’s believe that after 6000 yrs from Adam’s fall will begin the Millennium of the Christ. If each creative day was 7000 yrs long, it would be fitting that the Millennium would end the 7th creative day. I’m not sure the scriptural basis of that belief. If it’s true, then according to the BS and the JW’s, we’re way into the Millennium. However, the prophecies regarding that time period have not come to pass. So to answer your question, I don’t know; my mind keeps going back to Acts 1:7. I also remember a quote from a talk that Br Megacz gave, “It’s not so important to know how much time we have left, what’s important is what we do with the time we have now.” Therefore, I’ll continue to follow Jesus’ advice in Mat 24: 42. I hope you take my comments in the spirit they were given. I’m not trying to be argumentative, just trying to get all the facts in the open, as they say there are always two sides to any story, or theory.
Anonymous – Thanks for sharing your thoughts with us on the Friends of JWs website!
I am sorry, there is nothing you can “encourage.” Christ has spoken about this at Matthew 24:36, 24:42 and Acts 1:7. I will listen to HIM and reject all of these attempts by religious organization to listen to THEM.
It is not true: Russell did believe in and adopt the 1914 date when he was associated with the Second Adventist movement. YOU are mistaken. Russell was even a contributing editor of their magazine “Herald of the Morning” where Russell’s name appears prominently on the cover as an editor. In the lower right-hand corner of those magazine issues appear the words, “Times of the Gentiles end in 1914.”
Don’t believe me? Google “Herald of the Morning” and find images of the magazine cover and you will see both C.T. Russell’s name on them and the “Times of the Gentiles end in 1914” on the cover. Not only that, persons should dig deeper and learn about the man who tutored Russell when he was a Second Adventist and then see if I am lying or misrepresenting Russell.
Russell did bring the 1914 teaching with him when he founded even you.
You are “blocking” and do not want other to know these things. YOU want to be the one doing the telling rather than “encouraging” others to check out what R. Jerome Harris is saying is true or false. You also “prejudice” them so any investigations are tainted. You have not been forthcoming with your readers and you also seek to conceal these valuable facts just as JWs do. I am puzzled as to why you would do this. It raises a red flag in my view that if one would “conceal” something like this, then what else are they purposely concealing. Such ones cannot be trusted in what they say.
I talk about Russell because of 1914 and letting readers know where your founder received it from. Why do you fear me discussing Russell? People should be given the freedom to find out for themselves. I realize I know more about Russell than you do. I read almost everything he wrote and studied many aspects of his life. So, respectfully, pardon you: I do know about C.T. Russell.
You misinterpret me exposing the truth about Russell and 1914 and where it comes from as misrepresenting Russell. This is typical of what religious organizations do. When someone exposes some tidbit of truth about them, they in turn, attack the bringer of it so as to discredit him. Yet, the FACTS remain and do not go away when you discredit someone.
No, I encourage all to investigate this for themselves and see if I am misrepresenting Russell. He is nothing to be but a man. I champion Christ, something you do not do. You worry about a man as if God sent him.
Long dissertations that really say nothing and have no substance are no substitute what it took the Master a few to say at Matthew 24:36, 24:42 and Acts 1:7.
These “other” voices are “anti” and in opposition to what Christ taught and I reject them and expose them as just that.
Neither do I place myself in a position to “answer or report back to men.” U stand with Christ and not with “bulk” religious organization who worship and serve men instead of worshiping God and serving the Christ.
Lastly, I am interested in what “Jesus” taught and what the Most High God uttered, NOT what “The Bible” says. The Bible is a book (European) men stood and “they” made holy and “they” authorized and “they” make “The Word of God.” I reject this too because no book is The Word of God, Jesus [the] Christ is. Rev 19:13.
Many of you ascribe to “The Bible” things Jesus says in it. If Jesus utters at John 14:6, “I am the way, the truth, and the life” YOU and many others say “The Bible” says this. No! No! No! Jesus says this.
I would think you would want to focus on the one who called you to be his disciple and listen to what “he” says and not what “The Bible” or a religious organization says.
Who told you that the “Bible” is The Word of God? Where is this written. And, no, 2 Tim 3:16 does not state that.
Did God tell you to listen to a book, an organization, or His Son? Did God chose a book, an organization, or His Son. (Luke 9:35)
It would be unwise on my part NOT to obey God and listen to his son.
Jerome – I like you and I don’t want to be argumentative. I think you are sincere, but I must encourage you to provide documentation to support your criticisms, because I really think you just do not understand what Brother Russell and Bible Students believe. You can quote Russell, then criticize him, however if you just criticize him, you haven’t proven that he believes what you claim he believes.
I never said that Russell did not teach about 1914 AD and the Times of the Gentiles. He certainly did. What I said was that he did not identify 1914 as the date of Jesus return at his second presence. If you disagree, please provide a quote and citation from Russell to prove your point. You keep criticizing Russell, but I can’t recall you quoting him once, which makes me think you have probably not read directly from his writings and you are simply trusting the criticisms of others.
Why do you keep calling Bible Students a religious organization? If we are a religious organization, can you please tell us who is in charge of this organization? Where is our headquarters? We have no head but Jesus and Jehovah. We have no headquarters, as each congregation is independent and reports to no man. Elders are elected by vote annually, as following the practice of the early church in voting for elders.
You say, “You are “blocking” and do not want other to know these things. YOU want to be the one doing the telling rather than “encouraging” others to check out what R. Jerome Harris is saying is true or false.” We have not blocked or prevented you from saying anything up till now. I told you in a prior email, that we have a practice of not letting anyone person dominate the conversation on this website. I asked you to limit your comments to one a day (or two max). You have four long comments today and I am only approving one of them today. You can either comment once or wait and I will release one of your other three comments each day.
Nothing happened in 1914 because of what Jesus HIMSELF said at Matthew 24:36, Matthew 24:42 and Acts 1:7.
Why is human agency saying the opposite of what the Master says?
Human agency say that Christs second presence occurred in that year; that he became king in that year; that the start of the last days occurred in that year; and that the Appointed Times of the Nations ended in that year.
Jesus says (in the Scriptures provided) this is not knowable by humans, angels or himself. Only Jehovah knows.
Yet, we have human agency claiming to know something Jesus says that even he does not know. Go figure.
Notice that many people speak of “Pastor Russell’s Predictions” or what the Prophet Daniel says or what “the Bible” says. THIS IS THE PROBLEM.
There is a “listening to” everyone and everything other then the ONE Jehovah says we are to listen to: His Son. (Luke 9:35)
What does Jesus [the] Christ say about this? (Matthew 24:36, Mark 13:32, Matthew 24:42 and Acts 1:7)
A lot of you are not listening. You are listening to Pastor Russell or the Watch Tower organization and the more than 33,000 contending “Christian” denominations.
BTW: Pastor Russell did not originate the 1914 and neither did the organization of Bible Students he founded. (And not even the WTBTS)
Charles Taze Russell was a associated with the Second Adventist movement and it was that movement that established this date. When Russell broke away from that movement to found his Bible Students organization, he brought that date with him.
Again, it is not what The Prophets, or Charles Taze Russell, The Bible Students, JWs, The Bible, etc say. It is what Jesus says about this. What does “he” say?
Jerome,
I would like to encourage you to judge each doctrinal item based on the scriptural evidence alone. Just because the JWs believe something, does not make it wrong. Let the Bible be the judge.
You said, “Nothing happened in 1914 because of what Jesus HIMSELF said at Matthew 24:36, Matthew 24:42 and Acts 1:7.” Yet, consider that not even the Son knew (Mark 13:32). That doesn’t mean that Jesus would never know, any more than it means that we would never know when Jesus had returned and is present. Once Jesus had returned, the scriptural evidence would demonstrate that fact to the watchers.
Jesus does refer to the Times of the Gentiles prophecy. He says, “Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.” (Luke 21:24). So, the Gentile times (7 x 360 years) ended in 1914. WWI began in 1914 and that war produced the Balfour declaration which set aside Palestine as a homeland for the Jews. Hence the Gentile Times (time of domination over) Israel, ended in 1914.
You keep talking about Pastor Russell, but I only want to talk about the scriptures in the Bible. You are not correct to say that Pastor Russell and Adventists established 1914 as the date of Jesus’ return. Brother Russell did not believe that 1914 was the year of Jesus return. Rutherford adopted that point of view years later, long after Russell had died.
This is why I have asked you to read the Divine Plan of the Ages and report back to us the error your find. Up till know, you are often misrepresenting Russell’s point of view, which in many cases is different from the doctrinal views of JWs today.