How ironic that the “City of Peace” is the center of bitter world controversy! Not only is East Jerusalem contended between Israel and the Arab world, but world political and religious leaders also join in the fray.
Let’s get some historical perspective. During the height of the Arab Empire’s rule over the land of Israel, the Arab geographer Muqaddasi wrote in 985 A.D. about Jerusalem: “Everywhere the Christians and the Jews have the upper hand, and the mosque is void of either congregation or assembly of learned men.” (KNOWLEDGE OF CLIMES, page 167) The first recorded population census of Jerusalem was made in 1845 A.D. by Dr. Schultze, the Prussian Consul. He recorded a Jewish majority of 7,120 compared to an Arab minority of 5,000. From that year onward, the Jewish majority in Jerusalem increased.
At the breaking up of the Turkish Empire by the Allies at the end of WWI, both Arabs and Jews requested independent states. The world powers were generous in the extreme to the Arabs by granting them 21 independent Arab states, covering over 5,250,000 square miles. The Jews asked for only 3 percent of this vast territory and finally received less than half of 1 percent.
In 1922 the League of Nations recognized the legal, moral and historic right of the Jewish people to a national home in Palestine, including Jerusalem. Since then, vast oil reserves were discovered in Arab lands. If the Jews had a right to Jerusalem in 1922, that right is valid today. But the nations are compromising Israel’s rights for their own oil interests. Consequently, the U.S. administration and the U.N. define East Jerusalem as “occupied territory.”
Although there was a separate Jewish quarter in Jerusalem during the 1800s and early 1900s, the Jews, Arabs and Christians lived throughout the Old City until the Arab persecutions of 1929 and 1936. Then the Jews fled to the Jewish quarter or outside the wall.
During WWII. Allied powers then knew of the holocaust but refused to bomb out the railroad tracks leading to the death camps. And boatloads of Jews, like the St. Louis, were denied entry to the U.S. and sent back to their doom in Europe.
When the Arab Legion defied the U.N. and seized East Jerusalem in 1948, Jordan desecrated Jewish holy sites and banned Jews from the city. The world powers remained silent. In 1970 Jordan massacred 20,000 refugees when it expelled the P.L.O. out of its borders. In 1982 Syria destroyed the Moslem Brotherhood stronghold in the city of Hama. Nearly 19,000 were slaughtered. There was no cry of outrage by the international community about either carnage. In 1987 Saudi Arabia slaughtered over 400 Iranian Pilgrims at the Moslem’s most holy site in Mecca. In 1985-86 the Amal Arab forces waged total war against the P.L.O. camps in Lebanon. The world viewed the limited television reports with indifference but cried with outrage at Israel’s handling of the Intifada. Every time Israel tries to survive and defend itself, the world cries in outrage as if they are the aggressors.
The new State of Israel has been a miracle of history in fulfillment of Bible prophecy (Jeremiah 30:3,9,10,18). It is the work of the Lord, but an unfortunate pattern has developed. The Arab nations, the United Nations and now the United States are all opposing Israel. Jeremiah 31:16 has a warning for all such: – “… and all that prey upon thee will I give for a prey.”
The nations of the world would do well to heed the Biblical warning of Zechariah 12:3 – “In that day I will make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut to pieces.”
Thank you for clarifying, I think maybe I am having trouble seeing what you mean because of us starting from different languages. Can you explain specifically one more time:
How can Romans 11:28 be speaking of anything other than the nation of Israel, when it specifically says:
1. They are enemies for the Gospel’s sake
2. They are beloved for the fathers’ sake
Thanks,
🙂
Also, it appears there was a misunderstanding of what I meant by “church”. I am not speaking of the church systems out there. I am speaking of “church” as used in the Scriptures, the Greek word “ekklesia”…speaking of the anointed, or body of Christ.
Sorry for any confusion caused by this.
🙂
I am sorry for interaption to this post.
Hebr 10;25…..not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together……greek eklesis or episinagouges you are able only find in NT one more time in 2 Thess 2;1….this greek word do,nt encourage to attend earthly church or organizations +WTS JW masses or meetings..those two passages encourage to be….assemble of OURSELVES TOGETHER UNTO HIM…before HOLY ASSEMBLY OF ALL SAINTS IN HIS HEAVENLY CHURCH IN HEAVEN.
churches and organization of WTS JW and sects 37000 of false christ teachings(angel of light) just abuse hebr 10;25….not informing people of true meaning and using this passage send spiritual lies to draw people to own man made created salvations and man corrupted sanctuary
may God richly bless you
Hi Bobby,
I am not saying Israel did not do wrong. However, you still have not answered my question on the context in Romans 11. Do you see any other way to interpret verse 28 than for natural Israel? The Apostle says that touching the Gospel, they are enemies for your sake. This is not a spiritual class being described but an earthly class opposed to the Christians.
Then he said this class…this earthly class…is beloved for the fathers’ sake.
This is again like the Lord did back in the Exodus, in Deuteronomy 7:6-8, Moses told the nation of Israel, “For thou art a holy people unto Jehovah thy God: Jehovah thy God hath chosen thee to be a people for his own possession, above all peoples that are upon the face of the earth. Jehovah did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all peoples: but because Jehovah loveth you, and because he would keep the oath which he sware unto your fathers, hath Jehovah brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you out of the house of bondage, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt.”
This is the same way the Apostle Paul says in Romans 11, that it’s not because of who they are or what they did, but Jehovah keeps His promises, and He promised to the fathers that He would love them and give them the Land.
I would like to hear your thoughts on Romans 11:28.
Thanks!
🙂
yes sweety I abswered your question abot Romans 11;28…I gave you meanings of hebrew words and greek pointing not to whole nation or gtoups only to single ones,chosen,elected,beloved..meaning of original hebrew and greek is complete answer to this if we compare scripture with scripture independently of out own imperfect guesses
I alswys have limited time but if I am able I always will give you and not only your scriptual explanation with support of original languages.
may God richly bless you in your spiritual wisdom according to HIS GRACE AND MERCY…
I listen good advice of this Forum and change my name and e-mail
Thank you Bobby, that is very good advice to always pray before opening the Bible, and to ask for God’s guidance. I do always try to follow this, as I know my own understanding is nothing without God’s help (1 Corinthians 2:14).
I understand your emphasis on the word election. However, if the Apostle is speaking of those who are faithful that are beloved for the fathers’ sake, then why does he call them “enemies for your sake”? These are ones opposed to the gospel who are beloved not for their own sake, but because of the fathers…Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. This must be natural Israel.
As to the word “election”. Each place in the New Testament, the word translated “election” is Strongs #1589. The word literally means one chosen. Israel was a chosen nation. The spiritual Israel is also a chosen class. This is what many miss, is the fact there are two chosen classes spoken of in Scripture. One is a spiritual class, chosen to be the bride of Christ, and will be the New Jerusalem you mentioned that is spoken of in Revelation. The earthly chosen nation of Israel is what the Apostle Paul speaks of in Romans 11:28. The promises to natural Israel are earthly…they were promised the land, they were promised peace and prosperity on earth. The spiritual class is looking for a Heavenly reward, not the land of Israel.
Each of these two chosen classes has a different covenant with God and a different reward. The spiritual class is beloved for Jesus’ sake and only through him, while the natural class is beloved for the sake of the fathers, and was chosen before they could have believed in Jesus, before he opened up the new and living way (Hebrews 10:20).
🙂
nowhere in the Bible you will find verses supportin your claims of 2 class chosen people.I zrael was chosen but unfaithfuness and worship bloody false gods turn them down,church ages was chosen spiritual nation-but bloody ages of all churches atrocities murdered chidren of God own doctines,own self righteuesness etc….close those 2 chosen nations according to prinziples of God #2 Genesis 41;32….with additions of 5 Mose 7;8. 10;15. Rom 2;28. Gal 6;5. from this time of church end and Izrael end there is only one class elected,beloved children of God spiritual assembly of MOST HOLY JERUZALEM IN HEAVEN according to his Promeise,,,as proof from Bible not church deceived teachings Bible clearly shows as to whom Romans 11;27-28 means..do,nt point at all to literal Izrael careffuly reading those pasages will lead us to Gospel,election9hebr-bachir,greek -ekloge),and beloved(hebrew-yeduth,greek-apopetos…meanings of hebrew and greek words always point to one person not to group,church,organization or nation as whole(nation of Izrael).Election word you are able to find 6 times in NT..Rom 9;11.11;7.11;27. 1Thess 1;4. 2 Peter 1;10
word Gospel was given to first time churche ages by Christ in Acts 1;8..not given to Jehova witnesses.
worldly Gospel past 2000 Chirst and church ages leaded single chosen elected people as adopted sons of God from the earth Eph 1;3-9 to heavenly calling as singles not as literal nation or literal churches
God call each SINGLE=BELOVED ELECTED,ANOINNTED SPIRITUAL SONS OF GOD TO HAVE ETERNAL RESIDENCE NOT IN MIDDLE EAST LITERAL IZRAEL ONLY COMPLETION OF SPIRITUAL IZRAEL AS NATION IN CHRIST IN THE HEAVENLY ANTIDIMENSIONAL REALM(BIBLE DESCRIBE THIS AS HEAVEN)
please? read all biblical supported my explanations without of my guesses,
time is very close to an end and my free christian heart encourage you to independent study of Bible under power of Holy Spirit not under teachings of churches deceiving true biblical Gospel
if you want to know somithing more about true events of this time..just let me know.I am not church,not group of church.I belong only to eternal spiritual heavenly church where corner stone is Christ,but if the LAST gate to MOST HOLY SANCTUARY IS GOING TO BE OPEN ONLY IS DEPENDENT FROM GRACE,MERCY AND HIS OWN PLEASURE,I AM UNDER HIS WORD ALPHA AND OMEGA..only He have 100% right to give us beginning=MARVELOUS ETERNITY IN HIS ARMS or end=DEATH WITHOUT OF HOPE,SUFFERING JUST INHALATION.
but our task on this earth is 7/24 beseech and cry God for mercy Psalm 51;17..and beg for new heart Ezek 36;25-28….and being born again John 1;13. 3;3,5-8…..
exist not two hopes without of new heart,election as beloved child of God born again and without of new heart,new spiritual personality nobody have possible entry to KINGDOM OF GOD
your believings is your own pleasure,but Bible truth is a pleasure of GOD and we have to correct himself according to HIS VOICE 2 tYM 3;16. 2 Peter 1;20-21
literal Izrael is lost forever that is what bible teach,,not I
addition to my last post is to add something to Romans 11;28….meaning word “election” and beloved for the fathers sake….2 Peter 8..menschen two times “beloved” beloved in eyes were and are only His faithfull children in past literal fathers of izrael not nation for example.Moses,Aaron,Enoch,Abraham and line of single faithfull prophets,but unfaithfull izrael God do,nt recognize anymore because of atrocities commited without of end to HIS LAWS 5 Mose 28;15-68 very ugly punishment of own evils of Izrael and prophecy of modern time of JUDGEMENT DAY
“election” you are able to find in Eph 1;3-9. Gal 4;5.Romans 8;28.2 Tym 1;9.1Peter 1;2….. Romans 11;28 really do,nt point to literal Izrael today nor to literal Jeruzalem with muslims mosque on Holy place of Salomon temple place
thank you for reading my posts
Oh, and I agree, that the book of Revelation is speaking of a spiritual class with the 144,000 and with the New Jerusalem.
Lord bless!
🙂
Thanks for your comments Bobby,
I agree fully that the Bible is what comes first, and that God’s word is to settle all points, not our reasoning.
Based on this, I would like to ask you one question on the context in Romans 11. Do you see any other way to interpret verse 28 than for natural Israel? The Apostle says that touching the Gospel, they are enemies for your sake. This is not a spiritual class being described but an earthly class opposed to the Christians.
Then he said this class…this earthly class…is beloved for the fathers’ sake.
I look forward to discussing this further with you.
🙂
thank you for beautifful smile
as a child of God I always use as proirity of my life infaliability of Bible comparing scripture with scripture and encourage others to pray at firs for Holy Spirit John 14;26-27
you quote Romans 11;28…..this pasage look like pointing to literal nation of izreael but very carefful reading of this passage let you see something different if you compare scripture with scripture 5 Mose 7;8 and 10;15 point only to beloved for the fathers sakes and election Eph 1;3-9 also those verses points to spiritual Izrael elected as children of promise father ABRAHAM.Rom 2;28-29.. clearly states about spiritual JEW not of flesh circumsision but circumsision of heart as new creation..new creation do,nt apply to word restoration something from old to be new…new creration in Christ as second Adam is not from earth only from heaven and heavenly spiritual Holy City Jeruzalem of elected children anoinnted from the foundation of the world to posess promise given to Abraham in heavenly spiritual sense not literal,to finish biblical truth of passages please?sweety read Hebrew 11;16..but now they desire a better country,that is,AN HEAVENLY;WHEREFORE GOD,IS NOT ASHAMED TO BE CALLED THEIR GOD;FOR HE HATH PREPARED FOR THEM A CITY..Rev 21;12….
if you love our God? please? pray before open Bible and I am sure HOLY GOD WILL GIVE YOU UNDERSTANDING ACCORDING TO HIS OWN PLEASURE AND HIS OWN WILL Ephesos 1; 9. Romans 8;28
may God bless you richly
Hi Bobby,
Thank you for sharing these Scriptures. When it comes to the nation of Israel, I think the Apostle Paul treats this subject beautifully in Romans 11. He shows several things in this chapter.
* The nation of Israel did lose something
This is shown by verses 7 and 8, that Israel did not obtain what it sought. Paul goes on in verses 9 and 10 showing that their eyes were darkened so they would not see the truth.
* In spite of their loss, the nation of Israel still does have a place in God’s plan
Paul is continuing his thought in verse 11 showing that Israel did not stumble so as to fall. The purpose of their stumbling is so the Gentiles would also have an opportunity to be in the Church class, just as those in the nation of Israel had, shown back in verse 1.
Not only did they not utterly fall, but there was a purpose, which I’ll go into further soon.
* All Israel will be saved (verse 26)
* Their disobedience was for a purpose, which is to bless all
This is where it gets really exciting! Verse 15 begins a section which shows the true purpose of Israel being blinded, and allowed to fall for a time. The purpose of them being cast away from favor for a while is the reconciling of the whole world! Because God is using this for a purpose, back in verse 12, Paul shows that because of their fall and the blessing to the rest of the world, it will be even MORE of a blessing to the nation of Israel…”how much more their fullness?”.
* The gifts and calling of God are irrevocable (verse 29)
This section from verses 25-29 is so beautiful. It shows that Israel was blinded UNTIL the fullness of the Gentiles comes in…until God’s Church is complete. And then the blindness and their sins will be removed (verse 27). Verse 28 shows this that they are enemies for the sake of the church, but beloved for the sake of the fathers – God still keeps them in His plan and will help them.
Along with this last point, what are the gifts and calling of God to the natural nation of Israel, that are irrevocable?
* God will bless all the nations of the world through them
* They will own the land of Israel forever
* They will live in peace forever
I’m out of time for now, but hope to address the scriptures on these in the future.
God bless!
🙂
Your post is very interesant,but I respectffuly disagre about literal Izrael,your post only is your guess of own believing or church teachings,but we always have to put at first place what a Bible say and our comments have to be backed by scripture 2 Tym 3;16…2 Peter 3;20
I also am of time for now,but very soon I will give you scriptures proof what Izreal is going to be blessed forever and biblical meaning of Holy Jeruzalem. Rev 21;10;12…verse 12 is saying about 12 tribes but Rev 7;1-8 exclude earthly tribe of Dan=means12 tribes are not earthly 12 tribes and 144000 is not literal limited earthly number limited to literal Izrael or literal earthly organization of WTS JW..this means they are spiritual 12 tribes,and spiritual number of 144000 fullness of Gods spiritual Izrael His Holy Church residing in the heaven not literal Izrael,or literal orfanizations or teachings of Jehova witnesses,there is a lot more biblical proofs about spiritual sense of a future new heaven and new earth but not literal milenializm or literal Izrael,literal Izreal ended own fate after 40 years of last trial from God from 1948 til 1988 together with all organize churches+ WTS JW
I am not born american and possible my gramatic is a little bit difficult.I am sorry for this,but our gramatics do,nt change a future of ETERNAL GODS PLAN. ISNT?
I also am member of this spiritual church in heaven where corner stone of this church is JESUS as Lamb slained before foundation of the world Rev 13;8..and Ephesos 1;3-9
MAY GOD RICHLY BLESS YOU
Izrael have no more any role in Gods Plan,they ended own fate together with church ages from 1988..all organize religions+wts jw and nation of Izrael after permit of God 1948 are out of GODS SPIRIT,in all churches and 37000+wts jw sects ruler today satan 2 Cor 11;13-15.2Thess2;3-12.Izaiah 14;13-14. Ezek 28;2. 1Cor 8;5.
Izreal propoganda only turn attention to this land….but this country without of Christ have no more any impact to the close future of this earth