A mistake is in presuming that the Little Flock of 144,000 are the only ones who will receive a heavenly reward. The Anointed can be broken down into two classes after death: 1) the 144,000 and 2) those who fall short of the 144,000, but who are not going into second death.
We believe this second class is the same as the Great Crowd of Rev. 7. Notice the scriptural evidence for this second class.
1 Cor 9:24 – “Do YOU not know that the runners in a race all run, but only one receives the prize? Run in such a way that YOU may attain it.” NWT
A Full Reward:
Building on our Foundation:
“11 ¶ For no man can lay any other foundation than what is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if anyone builds on the foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood materials, hay, stubble, 13 each one’s work will become manifest, for the day will show it up, because it will be revealed by means of fire; and the fire itself will prove what sort of work each one’s is. 14 If anyone’s work that he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward; 15 if anyone’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, but he himself will be saved; yet, if so, it will be as through fire.” (1Co 3:11-15 NWT_)
This passage describes two classes, both of whom build their foundation in Christ (vs 11). The Little Flock are the ones described as building with gold, silver and precious stones (vs 12). They will be rewarded (vs 14). The second group of the anointed build with wood, hay and stubble (vs 12). They will be saved through fire (trials, great tribulation)(vs 15)
The gold, silver and precious stones are the Christ-like character qualities developed (i.e. the fruits of the spirit). The wood, hay and stubble are the deficient character qualities of this anointed group which disqualify them from the 144,000 office of priests and kings (Rev 20:6). However, these are not going into second death. As verse 15 says, they will be “saved.” This is the Great Crowd of Rev 7. They come out of great tribulation, which for some is that tribulation in coming out of Armageddon and for others the personal tribulation they experience in their life before dying, which Jehovah permits to help them wash the spots (sins) off of their robes (Rev 7:14)
Discreet and Foolish Virgins:
“1 ¶ “Then the kingdom of the heavens will become like ten virgins that took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom. 2 Five of them were foolish, and five were discreet.” (Mt 25:1-2 NWT)
In the New Testament, the word “virgins” applies to Anointed Christians (11 Cor 11:2; Rev 14:3,4) The foolish did not have much oil in their lamps (vs 8 ) and none extra in their receptacles. Both oil and anointing with oil are associated with the holy spirit (Acts 10:38; 2 Cor 1:21, 22; 1 John 2:27). The lesson is that some of the Anointed are not filled with the Holy Spirit. They lack in zeal and the fruits of the spirit. The solution was to have been developing the fruits of the spirit in their lives, depicted by purchasing the oil (acquiring the Christ-like character by suffering for righteousness). The door was shut by the time the foolish virgins arrived (vs. 10), demonstrating that putting off serving the Lord and developing the fruits of the spirit will result in loss of the crown (Rev 3:11), however there is no statement to indicate that the foolish virgins go into second death, but simply that they lose the opportunity to enter the marriage feast.
Called, Chosen and Faithful
“These will battle with the Lamb, but, because he is Lord of lords and King of kings, the Lamb will conquer them. Also, those called and chosen and faithful with him will do so.”” (Re 17:14 NWT_)
The called, chosen and faithful represent three progressive conditions. Those that are called are invited to the marriage (Matt 22:3,14). Those that are chosen have accepted the invitation and were chosen to be anointed (1 Peter 1:1,2) with the holy spirit. Those that are faithful unto death will receive the crown of life (Rev 2:10), the divine nature. This final group is the 144,000.
Just as not all who are called are chosen, so also, not all who are chosen to be Anointed, receive the crown of life (the Divine Nature). This group that is not totally faithful unto death are the same as previously mentioned in 1 Cor 3:10-15 who do not receive the reward, but are saved by fire. They are the Great Crowd of Rev 7 who serve before the throne and were pictured by the Levites who served in the tabernacle. They are mentioned in Psa 45:14 as the virgins, the brides companions in the Kings palace. These same bride’s companions are the Great Crowd of Rev 19:6 who in verse 7 are at the marriage supper (in heaven) rejoicing.
Thank you Jacuelin.
Mt 23:11,”But he that is greatest among you will be his servant.”
Is that not wisdom from above. Not the way the world under Satan runs is it? And the judging between these individuals is not done by any of us humans. And nowhere in the Bible do I find that a scorecard will be delivered to mankind saying who was the greatest.
But if this helps at all the twelve are mentioned in Rev as to having their names,”And the wall on the city of the city had twelve foundations, and on them twelve names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.” Rev 21:14
Does that make them greater or lesser? For me it does not matter.
Thanks all for the input,I was thinking if Jesus was talking about the “lesser ones” as being in heaven then perhaps they’d represent the “great company”.
To K;
Mat 11:11,”Among them that are born of women there hath not arisen a greater than John the Baptist: yet he that is but little in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he is.”
The Greek by the Diagloot,”Indeed I say to you, not has risen among born of woman greater of John the dipper: the but less in the kingdom of the heavens, greater of him is.” Ttranslated reads,”Indeed I say to you,Among those born of Woman, there has not arisen a greater than John the Immerser; yet the least in the kingdom of the heavens is supweior to him.
Luke 1:15,”For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and he shall drink no wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Spirit, even from his mother’s womb.”
Jer 1:5,”Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee, and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee; I have appointed thee a prophet unto the nations.”
John 3:3,”Except one be born anew, he cannot see the kingdom of God.” 1 Cor 15:50,”flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God.”
You are aware Jehovah, than his Son, then the heavenly spirits, along with the 144,000 when completed in heaven will all be superior to any human being.
For example, name one of the 144,000 that had that said about them at Luke 1:15. Name one of the 144,000 that was as wise or wiser than King Solomon. But King Solomon and John the Baptist are not of the 144,000. So as resurrected humans they will be a little lower than spirit creatures.
Hank, I realize the “JW” meaning of this scripture,however, all those who are of the 144,000 are all equally greater than any man and since Jesus says: “…..in the kingdom of the heavens” I assume he means they’re in heaven.So how can there be lesser ones of the annointed since they are all above the angels and immortal?
Matt. 11:11 says: “Truly I say to YOU people, Among those born of women+ there has not been raised up a greater than John the Baptist;* but a person that is a lesser one in the kingdom of the heavens is greater than he is” What does it mean by “lesser one”?
Hi K, as regards Matt. 11:11. This great prophet, John, didn’t claim the honor of being a part of the Bride but said
John 3:29 “He who has the bride is the bridegroom; the friend of the bridegroom, who stands and hears him, rejoices greatly at the bridegroom’s voice; therefore this joy of mine is full.” or fulfilled. John was to be a friend of the bridegroom and to introduce him.
Heb 3:5.6 “Moses was faithful in all God’s house as a servant….6. but Christ was faithful over God’s house as a son. And we are his house if we hold fast our confidence and pride in our hope.”
So Moses and John were the prophets before Christ died and the hope of heavenly life was made sure for those holding fast the hope after he died. So John is classed with Moses as an ancient worthy.
The prophets did not know of the fullness in understanding of these things so the least understanding one in heaven knew more than John. I hope this helps a little. Sincerely Jacqueline
Thanks for the help Jacqueline but still I want to know who are the “lesser ones” of the annointed once they’re in the kingdom of the heavens(in other words heaven itself?)
K – In Matt 13 Jesus would say that “The kingdom of heaven is likened to…” etc, speaking of the “New Creation” (anointed) or embryo kingdom on earth. Jesus even said that the kingdom (or king) was among them. It is the kingdom of heaven (administered by heaven) on earth.
K, of course we can’t give a specific, because Jesus didn’t.But do you suppose that all will have the same demeanor or personality in Heaven? Could it be that some personality is lesser but not inferior nor incomplete but in perfection? The fact that John will be on earth and those in heaven, I agree with Hank that he will be lower than the heavenly ones. This is how I would reason since Jesus said it not so much to emphasize lesser but the status of John not being there but with the ancient worthies. Because John saw Jesus but was never an apostle so I can see why he would address this issue as our teacher. But I personally can’t go beyond what he said.
The parable of the foolish and discreet virgins is obviously(IMHO)not to be taken literally because the bridegroom isn’t going to marry the bridesmaids(unless he’s a polygamist)he’s only going to marry the bride, so the point is we must always be alert and watchful.
K – Yes. I agree with you that we should not take this parable literally as you explained so well. The key is really to let scripture interpret scripture as we endeavor to interpret parables. Here are some thoughts.
“1 ¶ ”Then the kingdom of the heavens will become like ten virgins that took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom. 2 Five of them were foolish, and five were discreet.” (Mt 25:1-2 NWT)
In the New Testament, the word “virgins” applies to Anointed Christians (11 Cor 11:2; Rev 14:3,4) The foolish did not have much oil in their lamps (vs 8 ) and none extra in their receptacles. Both oil and anointing with oil are associated with the holy spirit (Acts 10:38; 2 Cor 1:21, 22; 1 John 2:27). The lesson is that some of the Anointed are not filled with the Holy Spirit. They lack in zeal and the fruits of the spirit. The solution was to have been developing the fruits of the spirit in their lives, depicted by purchasing the oil (acquiring the Christ-like character by suffering for righteousness). The door was shut by the time the foolish virgins arrived (vs. 10), demonstrating that putting off serving the Lord and developing the fruits of the spirit will result in loss of the crown (Rev 3:11), however there is no statement to indicate that the foolish virgins go into second death, but simply that they lose the opportunity to enter the marriage feast.
Thanks for the Info. Peter K.So the 144,000 are the “cream of the crop” so to speak and the “great crowd” are those that arn’t as qualified?
K – That is one way to put it. 1 Cor 3:10-15 speaks of two classes that build their foundation in Christ. One class recieves a reward (144, 000) and the other class falls short, but is saved anyway (Great Crowd).
Let me ask a question. Do we believe that everyone who is anointed with the Holy Spirit and chooses the narrow way to heavenly life will be sufficiently faithful to be one of the 144,000? Is it the same as “once saves, always saved?” Of course not. There may have been millions called to the heavenly calling. Some of these are faithful and developed enough in Christian character to be of the bride of Christ. What of the others who love Jehovah but fall short in their Christian growth and commitment? We have another class here, don’t we? I believe these are the Great Crowd.
Peter K.,that sounds more reasonable and merciful than consigning them to gehenna as the Jw’s do.
K – Jehovah’s justice is balanced with love and mercy.
To R Jerome Harris;
Through the rising of Jesus the Christ out of those who are dead, unto an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, which is not want to perish, being kept for you in the heavens. Read Col 1:5 and John 14:2
Also note 1 Pe 3:18 raised as a spirit and then at a later date throws Satan out of heaven down to the earth. Rev 12:9 thus showing Jesus is in heaven.
At John 14:2—PS 115:16–hEB 12:25
mAT 5:12,”Rejoice,and be exceedingly glad:for great is your reward in heaven.” Mt 8:11,”in the kingdom of heaven.” 7:21,”shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.”
Hopes this helps.
Dominating this website? I thought I was participating like everyone else. What is this? It sounds like what you are trying to say is “go away.” If that is the case, why would you do that?
That is exactly what the Watch Tower does when it has persons among them that asks questions or challenge and investigate them and their teachings up against Christs teachings. The seek to shut them up or place a “foul stench” upon them so others will find them repugnant.
I supposed if I agreed with you, I would not get such a reply.
I think my participation is normal and no different from levels of participation I see out of others.
I suppose you could ban me. But I will not stop participating as I have been.
Certainly I cannot possibly present a threat to you.
Jerome, please realize we are not your enemy but your friend. You are publishing your website here duplicating it. I have been to it. You have made your point and we reserve the right not to have to agree. We are here to help those that don’t have all the answers. It seems you have it all figured out. No offense Jerome but that is the way you come across. Others won’t post if you dominate, they are too courteous to butt in with a question.
In my last post the last sentence should read:
So if God’s kingdom comes down, why does any think anyone is “going up” to heaven. Jesus’ words at John 3:13 ARE TRUE
It is a mistake to presume that anyone – including the 144000 – will receive a “heavenly reward.” Why is the “prize” heaven?
Jesus never said that they would be in heaven; men say this.
Jesus, at John 3:13 said:
“Moreover, no man has ascended into heaven but he that descended from heaven, the Son of man.”
This has not changed.
There is talk of first-class and second-class “Christians.” This is all being made up as Christ does not speak of such a thing. References to a “little flock” and a Great Crowd are not references to two classes of “Christians” because:
1. There is no such thing as Christians as Christ never told us to be call by that name. No where to we see Christ calling his disciples by this name and never to be we see the disciples calling EACH OTHER by this name. This is all made up.
2. There will be a First and a Second Resurrection. Those of the First Resurrection make up that little flock and the second death has no authority over them. That does not make them a “class.” Those of the Great Crowd are of the Second Resurrection. This does not make them a “class.” They are all subjects to Christ in his kingdom and Brothers to each other.
No anointed are in existence today and will not be seen until the First Resurrection of the dead occurs when Christ begins his 1000 year kingdom over the earth. This is yet future.
While NO anointed are in existence to today (the teaching that they are is in error); when they do come into existence, they will along with the Great Crowd be misled by Satan after Christs 1000 year kingdom over the earth ends. (Rev 20:6-8)
This 144000 will ALWAYS be on earth. They will be on earth as Christs “visible” kings for the 1000 years; they will be on earth after his kingdom ends.
In fact, they are called The Kings of the Earth in Revelation. This misled 144000 “will receive authority as kings one hour WITH the wild beast.” (Rev 17:12)
They will, for that one hour, serve a The False Prophet. There will be no apparent reason why the Great Crowd would not listen to these men (kings) because they were formerly kings WITH Christ in his kingdom of 1000 years.
It will only be by the declaration the “the angel” of the Good News of the Kingdom that will awaken some of these “kings” and some members of the Great Crowd and they will withdraw their support (worship) from the Wild Beast.
Now we see both “enlightened” kings and members of the Great Crowd outcasts within Satan’s Throne of the Wild Beast. THEY become objects of hatred by ALL still loyal to the Wild Beast and THEY will be subjects of Great Tribulation. Their former Brethren the source of their tribulation. (Matthew 24:9; Matthew 10:36; Rev 13:16-17)
Those of the 144000 and the Great Crowd who do not respond to the angelic declaration in those days of the “Good News” and who still support the Wild Beast in bringing tribulation to the “faithful and discreet ones” who responded the angelic declaration and who no longer worship the Wild Beast and his image AND who WITTINGLY, KNOWINGLY, AND PURPOSELY rebel against God are removed from The Book of Life (Go into the Lake of Fire).
Jesus himself said at Matthew 10:22:
“… he that has endured to the end is the one that will be saved.”
Jesus made no distinction between those of the 144000 and Great Crowd. When Satan comes up out of the abyss, ALL – both the 144000 and Great Crowd – will undergo an experience that Jesus had in the wilderness. BOTH be tested by Satan in a very large way.
If we faithfully endure that test to the end (when Satan is destroyed), then we are “saved” and given the “prize” of everlasting life in God’s Kingdom that COMES DOWN to the earth. (Matthew 6:9,10)
Many teach about “GOING UP” to heaven. That makes no sense because God’s Kingdom will ALSO “COME DOWN” to the earth. That is, God’s everlasting heavenly kingdom will envelope the earth.
And, all on earth who are subjects of that kingdom live forever as the kingdom itself is everlasting.
Many confuse Christs kingdom of 1000 years with God’s everlasting kingdom. Christs kingdom comes BEFORE God’s kingdom comes down to the earth and it is a “definite” kingdom. Christs kingdom is like “John the Baptizer” in that it prepares the way for God’s Kingdom to come.
God’s kingdom is “indefinite,” and to it, there is no end.
So if God’s kingdom comes down, why does any think anyone is “going up” to heaven. Jesus’ words at John 13:13 ARE TRUE.
Jerome – As I keep trying to tell you, we do not want any one person to dominate this website, so we may only approve one comment from you each day. Trying to discuss scriptures with you is a bit discouraging, because when we respond to you with scriptures and even direct statements from Jesus, for the most part you seem to ignore what others are saying. So it seems to me, that you are not here to have an open discussion with honest consideration of each point of view, but rather to teach us. So let me respond to your thoughts about no heavenly hope, even if you will not respond, other then to say that if Jesus didn’t say it, it doesn’t matter.
Rev 14:1 (ASV) “And I saw, and behold, the Lamb standing on the mount Zion, and with him a hundred and forty and four thousand”
The Lamb is Jesus, a heavenly spirit/divine being. The 144,000 is with Him together on Mount Zion (the heavenly government). You don’t think Jesus is on the literal Mount Zion with a flesh and blood do you?
Further confirmation that Mount Zion is heavenly is found here:
Heb 12 (NASV), “22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, 23 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven”
Yes the Bible clearly teaches about the earthly kingdom, but for the Christian, the Bible only speaks of a heavenly hope as in the scriptures that follow:
“For our citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ;” (Php 3:20 NAS95)
“the hope that is being reserved for YOU in the heavens. (Col 1:5 NWT)
“Consequently, holy brothers, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the apostle and high priest whom we confess-Jesus.” (Heb 3:1 NWT)
“Rejoice and leap for joy, since YOUR reward is great in the heavens; for in that way they persecuted the prophets prior to YOU.” (Mt 5:12 NWT)
“2 In the house of my Father there are many abodes. Otherwise, I would have told YOU, because I am going my way to prepare a place for YOU. 3 Also, if I go my way and prepare a place for YOU, I am coming again and will receive YOU home to myself, that where I am YOU also may be.” (Joh 14:2-3 NWT)
“1 For we know that if our earthly house, this tent, should be dissolved, we are to have a building from God, a house not made with hands, everlasting in the heavens. 2 For in this dwelling house we do indeed groan, earnestly desiring to put on the one for us from heaven,” (2Co 5:1-2 NWT)
None of these scriptures indicate any other hope for the Christian than the heavenly hope. As a matter of fact, Eph 4:4 says, “One body there is, and one spirit, even as YOU were called in the one hope to which YOU were called” (Eph 4:4 NWT). So for the Christian there is only one hope; the heavenly hope. Throughout the book of Acts, whenever anyone is baptized, nobody is ever given the option of whether they want to choose an earthly or a heavenly reward.
Even the Great Crowd are said to be in Heaven in Rev 19:1 which says, “After these things I heard what was as a loud voice of a great crowd in heaven.” (NWT) The Greek words translated great crowd is exactly the same as in Rev 7:9. See more on the Great Crowd in the next questions.
Upon rereading the original post; it would make sense that the virgin class represents the “brides COMPANIONS” and not the bride herself.