“Of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.” —Genesis 2:17
Why doesn’t God do something about all the suffering that is in the world today? Why does God allow an innocent baby to sicken and die? Multitudes are killed or maimed by tornadoes, cyclones, typhoons, and earthquakes—cannot God do something about this? When hundreds are killed in accidents over a single weekend … “Has God no pity?” As far back as history reaches, man has suffered and died in war, pestilence, famine, and calamities. And all in every generation have finally died, having been beaten down by the great enemy Death. Abel, a son of Adam, whose sacrifice was pleasing to the Lord, was the first to die, being murdered by his brother Cain. Today more than a hundred thousand humans die every day. Our hospitals and mental institutions are filled with the suffering and dying. No wonder many are wondering where God is, and what He is doing about the distresses of humanity.
Tulsigirl You do not have me for your forgiveness. There is nothing to forgive 🙂
God be with you and your son.
Humbly & respectfully
Taylor
My very dear Taylor, I am so VERY sorry that my words brought you more pain. I certainly NEVER intended for what I thought might help you NOT hurt you instead!!! Sometimes when we want to help we do more damage than good.
No, Taylor, I’ve never been in prison, but have a son who has. He actually came out a much better person than he went in. I know that it was ugly and atrocious as he rarely will speak of it. I know that he spent a lot of time in solitaire because he did try to stop some of the horrific things he saw.
All I can do is beg your forgiveness for the hurting words and I’ll say no more except I’ll try to be more sensitive in the future to whoever I might try to give encouragement to.
Ashamed,
Tulsigirl
Tulsigirl
Can I ask you a question? Have you ever been to prison? Well, by your childish, insensitive and disgusting comment I can see that you haven’t. Let me tell you, what I witnessed and experienced there would make someone like you curse God and Jesus Christ for fun. I experienced and saw pain that people like you could not even imagine existed. Many young vulnerable boys raped repeatedly crying and screaming in agony for help! Help that never came! Not from God or Jesus! There were 3 suicides of young boys on my block who could not bear the brutality and pain of being gang raped day after day and night after night! There was no help for them as there is no help for the many who are still there now.
So don’t ever patronise or lecture me about suffering again! You don’t even have the right to use the word!
p.s
I leave you with your own loving “CHRISTIAN” words,
“The suffering of others around us can be appalling. But sometimes I have to be selfish and look to my own relief”.
My dear Taylor, I do not want to get too involved in your conversation with Peter. He seems to be doing, as always, an excellent job in helping you from the scriptures with guidance for your question concerning evil in the world. However, I felt I had to make a little comment of my own concerning your statement, “I have seen many really vulnerable and abused people suffer so much cruelty and pain and never have I seen God help one of them in their most agonizing moments.” If there were “none” who have suffered cruelty and pain who have received GOD’s help then the world would be much worse off then we see. Also, in all honesty and reality, Taylor, you don’t see each and every “vulnerable and abused” person’s end of the story. So you can’t actually say you have “never” “seen GOD help one of them.” We don’t always see all that happens. I feel I have suffered my own “agonizing moments.” GOD’s intercession wasn’t always readily noticeable. However, so many times I have been able to take a look back and seen GOD has always been there. He has always rescued me when it got to be more than I could handle. No miracle occurred. Sometimes, not much changed. But my ability to cope increased. Somehow I found a peace in my heart and I know it came from GOD and his Grace. In my case, I sometimes have to look for him to realize he’s actually there. The suffering of others around us can be appalling. But sometimes I have to be selfish and look to my own relief. It is not up to us to take on the suffering of the entire world. Our Savior, Jesus, did that for us. Then knowing GOD’s Divine Plan shows us that “this, too, will pass.” Live each day, sometimes each moment and find good, find peace, find joy in that moment. It can be found. Once you find it in your own personal space than you can reach out and share that with others to help them know how to do the same. Pray for help, then keep quiet and listen for GOD to answer. If we keep on talking, we can’t hear HIM. I use to talk too much… lol my friends will tell you I still do, but I have learned to stop and listen and not talk so much. GOD is always trying to talk to us. There is a story about a child taking a doll to their dad to be fixed. But the doll never got fixed. When the child asked the dad why he wouldn’t fix the doll the dad told them that they kept taking the doll away. The child constantly wanted to play with the doll and hold the doll so never gave dad the opportunity to fix the broken doll. We have to give GOD the opportunity to fix our broken doll.
Thank you for your kind invitation Peter. I will respectfully decline your offer though, as I am not really ready for that yet. But I thank you for your thoughtfulness.
As for the Divine Plan of the ages, well I have been reading Charles Taze Russells work for some time now. Three years ago my younger brother bought me a CD ROM with Zions watchtower on it. That’s the reason why I am here on your website. And Putting aside all my confusion and doubts. If I am truly honest, I do believe deep down that if anyone has come close to understanding the bible, then it would have to be him and only him. And only for the reason that the man writes like an angel. I mean I have never read anything like it in my life. It is so beautiful.
sincerely
Taylor
Thanks Taylor. We encourage people to read C.T. Russell’s writings to check them out for themselves. To be honest, I have to admit that my understanding of scriptures doesn’t come anywhere close to his. His books have helped me to understand the Bible and see it’s harmony like nothing else I have ever read before from any source outside of the Bible itself.
I thank you with all my heart for your time and your generosity in sharing your explanations with me. You are very kind. Please forgive me for following up with more questions. Its just that I have been struggling and tormented for many years by the issue of evil. You said it was a matter of faith and trust, you maybe right, I don’t know. I have been so desperate and in so much pain in my life. I have experienced so much injustice and during that time and even now I have never felt Gods love or ever been comforted by his spirit. I have begged him like a dying animal so many times, but have never received anything from him. No help, no comfort, no nothing! I have seen many really vulnerable and abused people suffer so much cruelty and pain and never have I seen God help one of them in there most agonising moments. I don’t know how to trust him any more. I mean, I don’t know what to realistically expect from him. I have prayed, I have studied, I have questioned, I have reasoned, I have thought deeply, and I have begged him for understanding and wisdom yet, I feel more confused and troubled than ever before! I cannot find any certainty! Everyone has there own interpretation, theory or dogma regarding the bible. No one ever doubts themselves the way I doubt myself. They all selfishly and fanatically cling to their ideas and their belief-systems so defensively. I cannot understand why no one has the humility or even the honesty to say I don’t know, I’m not sure. Why are they so cowardly so unreasonable about what they believe?
I know that God exists and that he will eventually sort things out. But I just feel that there are some evils that happen to people that should never be allowed. Never! Because they completely and totally destroy you!
Sorry to burden you with my feelings!
Forgive me.
Taylor
Taylor – I am happy to hear from you and very sorry for your sadness and personal suffering. We must have faith that “God works all things together for good to those who love God and are called according to his purposes.” Rom 8:28.
Jesus tells us to be like little children. I think he meant in our willingness to trust God and learn from him. Your “confusion” is perhaps actually an open and searching mind seeking Truth. This is the opposite of someone defending their dogma in spite of what the Bible says. You are on a good path and you are progressing. Your frustration in all that you see around you is evidence that you are progressing, since you can see things as they really are, A BIG MESS!
Remember that “the god (Satan) of this world has blinded the eyes of the unbelievers.” Isaiah tells us that “darkness covers the earth and gross darkness the people.” Yet we are promised that this trouble will all end. Rev 21:4 say, “and He will wipe away every tear from their eyes; and there will no longer be any death; there will no longer be any mourning, or crying, or pain; the first things have passed away.”
The book of Hebrews explains that Jesus was “perfected by the things he suffered” (Heb 5:9). The difficult experiences he went through for 3 ½ years followed by his torture and death prepared him to be the “merciful” and “sympathetic” priest that he is for us (as explained in Hebrews). The anointed followers of Jesus, who will become the bride of Christ, are also, as Jesus body members (the “seed” Gal 3:29), being prepared to be part of this merciful and sympathetic priesthood that will “bless all the families of the earth” (Gal 3:8) on Paradise Earth. Perhaps Jehovah is preparing you for such a role.
In terms of the confusion, remember the following:
* Realize that all the answers can be found in the Bible, as opposed to a denominational church.
* Have faith that all scriptures in the Bible on any topic must harmonize with each other. As you study each topic and look for complete harmony of all the scriptures, this will help you to arrive at Truth. You cannot be satisfied that you understand the Truth on a topic if there are unexplained seemingly conflicting scriptures.
* Talk to people who are like “little children,” willing to learn as you are, not inflexible Christians, with an agenda, that will not be persuaded by any amount of scriptural evidence and reasoning presented.
* A small book that has been very helpful in explaining God’s whole plan and brining it together is “God’s Grand Plan of the Ages. “ It explains the whole plan of God and harmonizes the whole Bible. You can find an electronic copy of this book at http://www.ChicagoBible.Org . We also link to it on our post for the August 10 study tonight which you are welcome to call in on an join us if you are interested.
God bless you and we hope to hear from you again soon.
You said, quote “It was better to allow ALL to experience evil and suffering so that when they come back to life in the kingdom, on Paradise earth, they will fully realize from experience the terrible consequences of sin and evil”.
This is a very relative and subjective statement.The reason for this is that there are many people who do not experience much evil or suffering in their lives. On the other hand, there are many people who experience great evil and suffering in their life. Therefore NOT ALL are going to benefit from this lesson. The great inequality of suffering on earth contradicts your statement. For all, to quote, “fully realize from experience the terrible consequences of sin and evil”, would mean all must EQUALLY experience the pain and suffering of every kind in this life to fully appreciate or benefit from “paradise earth”.
Your thoughts.
The inequality of suffering illustrates the inequity in a world that has rebelled against Jehovah and were its God is Satan (2 Cor 4:4). Jehovah’s aim is not that everyone equally experience the consequences of sin and evil, but that they sufficiently observe or experience it so as to appreciate the righteous contrast on Paradise Earth and to choose Jehovah’s ways. On paradise earth, disciplinary lessons and reproofs may be implemented in order to aid in the process of learning righteousness. (We see this principle in Luke 12:47-48 and Heb 12:6-11). We know that many that persecuted the followers of Jesus will repent on Paradise earth. 1 Peter 2:12 (NKJV) says, “having your conduct honorable among the Gentiles, that when they speak against you as evildoers, they may, by your good works which they observe, glorify God in the day of visitation. So in the future Kingdom, people will glorify God regarding the very acts of Saints which they now speak against. They will be sorry and they will have learned the lesson. The issue you are asking about is equality and fairness. We often may wonder why we as good people suffer and why evil people often prosper. The real issues here however are trust and faith in Jehovah as well as patience in waiting for him to work our his plan, trusting that he knows what is best.
Rom 8:22 (NKJV) says,”For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now.”
Truly mankind does groan under the sorrow of evil, injustice and suffering.
Yet Rom 8:18 says “18 For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. 19 For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God… 21 because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. (Ro 8:18-22 NKJV)
The angels may sin but they are not suffering any physical mental or emotional pain from sin, unlike humans are. They are still exempt or immune from suffering! Why the inequality?
The fallen angels (demons) are suffering. 2 Pet 2:4 (NKJV) says, “For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment;” Notice the “God did not spare” these angels. They were cast down to hell (Greek Tartarus) in chains of darkness. In Greek mythology, Tartarus was the underworld prison of the Titans. The Apostle Peter picks up on this story to illustrate the imprisonment of these fallen angels. Before the flood of Noah they had the ability to materialize, marry women and produce offspring called Nephilim. Since then, in “chains of darkness” they are trapped in the earth’s atmosphere, unable to materialize, but only able to observe the outworking of God’s plans and hopefully learn their lesson.
In Matt 8:28-29 (NKJV) the demons cried out to Jesus, “Have You come here to torment us before the time?”” That word “torment” comes from Strong’s 928. Notice how it is used in 2 Pet 2:8. “7 And He (God) rescued righteous Lot, greatly worn out {and} distressed by the wanton ways of the ungodly {and} lawless–– 8 For that just man, living there among them, tortured his righteous soul every day with what he saw and heard of their unlawful and wicked deeds––” (2Pe 2:7-8 AMP). Lot’s struggle in his mind and conscience in dealing with all the sin around him helps to illustrate the struggle and crisis of conscience these demons need to face in order to repent.
So sin and suffering was all part of Gods plan before he even created or conceived the idea of man. A kind of predestination?
Friend – Jehovah had His plan all worked out before the creation of the world. He can see the beginning from the end and he new Adam would fall into sin. If one man “Adam” were responsible for the whole world, then only one redeemer “Jesus” would be needed as the Ransom (anti-lutron Greek = corresponding price) to redeem Adam and thereby the whole human race (Rom 5:12, 18). Jehovah planed that His Son, Jesus was “the lamb slain from the foundation of the world” (Rev 13:8 NKJV). 1Peter 1:20 (NAS95) says, “For He was foreknown before the foundation of the world, but has appeared in these last times for the sake of you”
“10 Of this salvation the prophets have inquired and searched carefully, who prophesied of the grace that would come to you, 11 searching what, or what manner of time, the Spirit of Christ who was in them was indicating when He testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow. 12 To them it was revealed that, not to themselves, but to us they were ministering the things which now have been reported to you through those who have preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven––things which angels desire to look into.” (1Pe 1:10-12 NKJV)
Hello,
I found your website last night and I started reading this article. I have so many questions about the issue of suffering. I have always been troubled by it. For the last 10 years of my life I have been searching desperately for an answer to this very disturbing problem.
I have spoken to many Christians and JW’s about it, and most of them have shown themselves to be stone-hearted and very selfish in their responses to this.
I would like to ask you regarding what you said about man having to learn about good and evil through experience. My question is why should this be the case? The angels apparently have the capacity to understand good and evil without having to experience suffering and pain. They have been blessed with such a supernatural ability.
So why would God create men in such a way that would mean having to suffer such pain such cruelty such hurt such brutality and such evil in order to learn a lesson?
In other words, why are the angels EXEMPT from this lesson?
Why should they be wrapped in cotton wool and exist in a comfortable heavenly place where they are blessed with superpowers and invulnerability while many good innocent people suffer terrible injustice, pain and hurt which drive so many vulnerable and abused people to suicide.
Why has God not given men the same privilege he gave to the angels?
Why the inequality from a god of Justice? It does not make sense.
There are many examples of Jesus Compassion (Matt 14:13-21; 20:34; Mk 6:34) as well as Jehovah. His loving kindness and forgiveness are seen throughout the Bible from David to Nineveh. In John 4:8 we are told that “God is love.”
At first glance, Jehovah’s allowing of suffering seems to make no sense, until we can understand the big picture of Jehovah’s plan to restore mankind to human perfection on earth. Our present struggle with sin, evil and suffering seems unending, but in perspective, it is merely the blink of an eye in terms of eternity. Although it seems impossible to understand this today, the lesson for eternity is well worth it. Without the experience of evil and suffering, people would always be tempted to sin and pursue an evil and selfish course. It was better to allow ALL to experience evil and suffering, so that when they come back to life in the kingdom, on Paradise earth, they will fully realize from experience the terrible consequences of sin and evil.
The angels have been learning by observing the results of mankind’s sin and disobedience (1 Cor 4:9; 1 Pet 1:12).
Because the angels had not experienced sin directly, many were tempted and sinned by materializing on earth as men and marrying women (Gen 6:1-4). They kept not their first habitation (heaven), but sinned when they interfered with mankind’s affairs. They have been restrained from using many of their powerful abilities since Noah’s flood (Jude 6 & 2 Pet 2:4).
By his 3 ½ years ministry on earth and perhaps during the 40 days after his resurrection, Jesus preached to the spirits in prison (demons) 1 Pet 3:18-20. This implies that they are being given an opportunity to repent, else why would Jesus preach to them? Jehovah’s mercy is great indeed.
A judgment for these rebellious angels (demons) is coming. Remember how the deomons cried out to Jesus in Matt 8:29, saying, “have you come here to torment us before the time?” They knew their time of reckoning would come. The word “torment” has the meaning of “vexing” and “touchstone,” meaning that their consciences would be vexed at this judgment time, pressed to make a decision to repent, if they had not already done so. A “touchstone” tested the authenticity of metals and this judgment time will test the validity of their repentance or continued rebellion.
The statement in 1 Cor 6:2-3, “Do you not know that the saints will judge the world,… and angels?” implies that some of these angels would repent and be spared destruction, else why would Jehovah allow the Anointed Bride to participate in their judgment. The world “judge” here has the thought in the Greek of a trial or testing culminating in a judgment.
So we see that Jehovah is permitting all to experience sin directly or through close observation, so that this lesson of the consequences of sin and evil will remain with his creations throughout all eternity, removing the temptation for them to sin in the kingdom and cause trouble in Paradise.