Sorry, there are no polls available at the moment.

Articles & Posts

Apostasy? Who is an Apostate?

The concept of the apostasy as a “falling away” is clearly defined in the Scriptures.  The prophetic and historic “apostasy” of the Christian Age has been the Papacy (2 Thessalonians 2:3-8).

The Historic Apostasy—and Many Apostasies.

As the “mystery of evil [lawlessness],” the apostasy was already fomenting in the Apostles’ day with “elders” emerging as “lords over God’s heritage” (1 Peter 5:3).  But it became “antichrist” (instead of Christ) by not only replacing Christ’s sacrifice with an “abomination that maketh desolate”—the mass (Daniel 12:11)—but also supposedly setting up the Kingdom of Christ’s rule before Christ returned!

However, the Apostle John warned the Church that although “antichrist shall come, even now there are many antichrists” (1 John 2:18). So in principle, there have been many who have fallen away from the faith throughout the Age as well as during the end of the Age.

The First Apostate—and Apostates in the Early Church.

Lucifer was actually the first to fall way in a rebellion against God.  Satan, the first apostate—through the serpent—then deceived Eve of the consequences of sinning. So she then sinned against Jehovah.  Because Adam had “greater affection” for his wife than God (Matthew 10:37), he also disobeyed. And then both became apostates!

Those in the early Church who deviated from the Truth saying “the resurrection is past,” subverted the faith of some (2 Timothy 2:16).  This certainly was an apostasy.  Apostle Paul also warned of those who teach “other doctrine” than “those of our Lord Jesus Christ” (1 Timothy 6:3).  Although the Protestant Reformation recovered some of the teachings of Jesus from the Dark Ages, the apostate church remained the “mother of [daughter] harlots.”

Faithful Founder of the Watchtower Did Not Delay Jesus’ Return.

One of the signs Jesus told his disciples would be an evidence of his return was that he would appoint a “servant” to give his household “meat in due season” (Matthew 24:45-51)—Bible Truth at the appropriate time.  Charles Taze Russell, who founded the Watchtower, on the basis of Bible signs, time prophecies, chronology and corroborated by Biblical types, concluded and taught that Jesus returned invisibly in 1874.  It was a call to freedom from denominational bondage.  Although his full expectations for the consummation of the Age in 1914 seemed to “tarry” (Habakkuk 2:3), he did not then “delay,” that is, postpone the date of 1874 to a later time. Consequently, he did not “say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming and begin to smite his fellowservants…” (vss. 48, 49).  Brother Russell passed this prophesied test of waiting even while the full establishment of the Kingdom seemed to tarry!

If anyone claimed to postpone the return of Jesus Christ, it was Judge Rutherford, who postponed it to 1914.  He also imposed a centralized administrative structure on Bible Students worldwide—which he later called a theocracy, while to others it was a ruthless takeover..  Anyone who disagreed with him was thrown out of Bethel and/or disfellowshipped.

He also mandated door-to-door preaching and required reports of activity, and meeting places to be called “Kingdom Halls.”  Rutherford changed other doctrines that had been established as Watchtower teachings for over 40 years, including the Heavenly Call, the Great Crowd, the return of Jews to Israel and the necessity of character development (Rom 12;1,2; Gal 5:22,23).

C.T. Russell’s Will directed that no President would replace him.  He identified by name an editorial committee of five to take over the article writing duties at the Watchtower.

Today, the JW Organization says that Apostasy is leaving the doctrine of present truths taught by the GB and the faithful and discreet slave (GB). They say talking about the difference in doctrine constitutes apostasy.  Based on today’s standards, do you think Bible Students at the time C.T. Russell died should have considered J.F. Rutherford to be a usurper and an Apostate leader?

“The Shining Light, that Shineth More until the Perfect Day”—and Apostasy

Jesus was “the light of the world” at his first advent (John 8:12).  However, soon after the death of the Apostles, the Gospel light became mixed with error and darkness. But when Jesus returned, he gave his “household. . .meat in due season” (Matthew 24:45; Luke 12:42). The light of Truth became brighter. Especially unique was the recovery of the light of truth of the “Kingdom…in earth” being established for the whole unsaved world of mankind (Matthew 6:9, 10).

All peoples of the nations—which God had judged and condemned—would have an opportunity to be recovered.  Specifically, Jehovah Himself judged and destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah. But He has also planned that they will be “daughters” to a restored Israel under a better and New Covenant in Christ’s Kingdom (Ezekiel 16:55-61).

Would it be an “apostasy” against “increasing light” to say that Sodom and Gomorrah would not be restored?  And then would it be still more increasing light to say Sodom and Gomorrah would be restored—and then again, not restored?

After Brother Russell had consistently taught the recovery opportunity of Sodom and Gomorrah, the Watchtower went back and forth with its position on this teaching.

Resurrected or

NOT Resurrected




Publication Date


NOT Resurrected


NOT Resurrected


NOT Resurrected







Watchtower,Oct. 15(p. 367)

Watchtower  Feb.1

Watchtower, March 1

Watchtower, July 1

Watchtower, Oct. 8

Watchtower, April 15

Jesus’ Guidelines for Judging an Apostate.

In any case, who has the right to judge anyone as “apostate”—and then shun his or her fellowship?  Jesus clearly laid down the guidelines for disfellowshipping. First of all, the purpose of calling anybody on sin is to regain and win back our brother or sister!  To begin with, Jesus said we go to him or her first privately.  If that does not help, then we take two or three others with us to confirm our concerns. Then finally, if that does not bring repentance, we take the issue—not even to the elders—but to the whole congregation.

Matthew 18:15-20 -“And if your brother sins, [1] go and reprove him in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother. 16 [2] “But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every fact may be confirmed.  17 “And [3] if he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax-gatherer. 18 “Truly I say to you, whatever you shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. 19 “Again I say to you, that if two of you agree on earth about anything that they may ask, it shall be done for them by My Father who is in heaven. 20 “For where two or three have gathered together in My name, there I am in their midst.”  NAS

The whole congregation decides who is to be disfellowshiped and treated as a “Gentile” and a “tax gatherer”—in other words no longer privileged to have  the special warm fellowship of our brotherhood. Just as we may allow strangers to our faith to come and listen at our meetings, but we would not have the same bond of fellowship with them. After all, even Jesus allowed “publicans and sinners” to come and hear him (Matthew 5:46, 47; 9:10,11; 21:31, 32; Mark 2:15, 16; Luke 3:12; 5:29, 30; 15:1; 19:2, etc.)

Of course, those anointed who have been “enlightened…partakers of the holy Spirit” who have willfully “fallen away” cannot be recovered (Hebrews 6:4-7).  But again, only Jehovah can judge this degree of serious responsibility.

Apostles’ Authority to Judge.

However, the Apostles had a unique authority—not ever to be duplicated even by Popes—to judge certain cases of heresy. More specifically, Apostle Paul warned about Hymenaeus and Philetus who “have gone astray from the truth saying that the resurrection has already taken place” (2 Timothy 2:16-18).  That doctrinal deviation would certainly be very serious, as Paul taught that Jesus gave his life “a ransom for all” (1 Timothy 2:6). That apostasy would destroy the whole point of the Kingdom paradise on earth!

As mentioned, in another letter to Timothy, Paul said, “If anyone advocates a different doctrine, and does not agree with sound words, those of our Lord Jesus Christ, and with the doctrine conforming to godliness, he is conceited and understands nothing…” (1 Timothy 6:3, 4 NAS). In that context he is talking about treatment of widows, elders and slaves—not what is usually labeled “doctrinal issues.”  Following this general admonition, he warned about the danger of loving money and advocated contentment instead (vss. 6-10).

Did Jesus Tell his Followers to Cast Off Family to Follow Him?

No, but he certainly warned that “members of his household” could be divided by the “sword” of truth and reject his followers.  Yet faithful followers are to love Jesus even more than father, mother, son or daughter. Those who lose their precious family “life” for the sake of the Gospel will be compensated with a spiritual family life (Matthew 10:34-39).

But Jesus never told his disciples to cast off their Jewish parents or children who would not become Christian.  He merely warned them that divisions could come within a household—and family members might reject those who have decided to follow Jesus!

Apostle Paul—Gentle with Issues in the Early Church.

When the Apostle Paul wrote to the brethren at Thessalonica, he expressed himself as “gentle among you, as a nursing mother tenderly cares for her own children” (1 Thess 2:7). Even though he had to correct the Church at Thessalonica for believing falsely that already “the day of the Lord has come” (2 Thessalonians 2:2). (They were centuries off in their thinking. . .)

Yes, Apostle Paul called the Galatians “foolish” and asked, “who has bewitched you” for believing they were justified by works of the Law (Galatians 3:1-3). But he tenderly closed out his letter to them, “Brethren, even if a man is caught in any trespass, you who are spiritual, restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness; each one looking to yourself, lest you too be tempted. Bear one another’s burdens, and thus fulfill the law of Christ. . . . And let us not lose heart in doing good, for in due time we shall reap if we do not grow weary. So then, while we have opportunity, let us do good to all men, and especially to those who are of the household of the faith” (Galatians 6:1, 9, 10).

When the Corinthian Church tolerated one in their midst who committed fornication with his father’s wife—he rebuked the “church of Christ which is at Corinth” as a congregation for not taking responsibility for appropriate action (1 Corinthians 1:2; 5:1). “Remove the wicked man from among yourselves” (vs. 13). He did not address only the elders to take action.  But he addressed  the whole congregation as responsible to take action removing this person as one who was an apostate from the faith.

On the prevailing, on-going issue of circumcision and certain Jewish customs in the early Church, Paul rebuked Peter—as well as Barnabas. “I withstood him to the face because he was to be blamed” (Galatians 2:11-13). But Apostle Paul did not disfellowship either or call them “apostate.” Much later, Apostle Peter even commends Apostle Paul, “. . .our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you” (2 Peter 3:15)

Satan and Apostate System to be Destroyed—Those Blinded given Opportunity to be Saved.

In conclusion, yes, the Apostate Church of Rome, “the mother of harlots,” is judged and will be destroyed by those who formerly supported her (Revelation 17:15, 16). And, yes, the very first Apostate – Satan – will be ultimately destroyed in second death (Revelation 20:10).

However, those now “blinded” by Satan, “the god of this world” (2 Corinthians 4:4) will have an opportunity to “learn righteousness” (Isaiah 26:9) on the “highway of holiness” where there will be “no lion” (Isaiah 35).

Of course, Adam being perfect, he could only sin willfully when he plunged his whole posterity under the death penalty.  But Jesus being the perfect Man, laid down his life a Ransom as a corresponding price specifically for Adam. Thus Adam himself—as well as all his posterity which also fell away into apostasy—will come back in the resurrection. “As in Adam all die, so in Christ shall all be made alive” (1 Corinthians 15:22).



35 comments to Apostasy? Who is an Apostate?

  • Anonymous

    To Dupin;

    Thank you for your comments. And I don’y hate you either. Why just the other day a work mate asked me a question about my faith. This from a oerson who wants to discuss nothing. In answering I mentioned I was raised Catholic and that person said the same. May I ask what faith you are and the reply was Lutheran.

    I did then say that the Catholic Church did drill the ten commandments at me and that that was a good thing. And if everyone in the world just used them to the best of their ability, the world would be a much, much better place. She agreed.

    Have a great day!

  • Dupin

    By the way…

    I do like the article. If anybody is apostate it would be those who followed Rutherford after learning the truth. Those were relatively few since we do know Rutherford deliberately ran most of the Bible Students away from the Watch Tower. He used aggressive recruiting tactics to replace them. However, his organization is apostate anyway since it deviates from the truth.

    But, then, we Bible Students are called heretics by other apostate organizations with histories which reach further back than the Witnesses. that’s the way it goes and I’m not going to let name-calling bother me. Leaving the Witnesses was the decision I made and it does come with some consequences. So be it! I’ll just keep Matt. 5:11-12 before me.

    I don’t hate you Max. But when I write that I will or will not do something I do it.

  • max

    To RR;

    Thank you and you have a good life also.

  • This definition sounds like the IBS and WTBTS and even Charles Taze Russell to me.

    I am amazed how religious organizations today apply this definition of “Apostasy” to any who disassociate or leave THEM. When it is a leaving off of “Christs Teachings” is what an Apostate is, NOT one who leaves a religious organization. Thus, any who do not hold true to or cling to or who deviate from Christ teachings is an Apostate.

    For example, if Jesus is the Word of God and a man (Charles Taze Russell) says he is God’s Mouthpiece (Word of God), then this is a deviation. (Apostate and antichrist)

    If Christ says no one (other than the Father) knows when he will return, and a man and organization(s) publish dates (such as 1914), then this is a deviation. (Apostate and antichrist)

    When the IBS and WTBTS say Jesus gave signs (a series of events) as evidence of his return and Jesus’ disciples asked for “what sign) a single event (Matthew 24:3) and Jesus gives them, in answer to their question, a sign at Matthew 24:30, this is a deviation. (Apostate and antichrist)

    When organizations portray Adam, Eve, Angels, Jesus, God, The Prophets, The Apostles, etc in their literature, in art, and in film in the likeness of the European, this is a deviation and it misleads the world and presents false images of things and persons they have not seen. (Apostate and antichrist)

    The problem is that religious organizations use “emotionalism” to hook and attach persons to themselves and to be loyal to them. So it is a very difficult thing for them to see that it is Apostates who have control over them.

    What was to come according to Christ would come in a very large way. The Apostasy would envelope the entire world who think it is following Christ. Jesus said they (many) would come TRUTHFULLY claiming that he is the Christ, but they would mislead many.

    The IBS, WTBTS and all so-called Christian religious organizations truthfully acknowledge that Jesus is the Christ, but would mislead many. (Matthew 24:4-5)

    The “MANY” are the more than 41000 “contending” Christian denominations in the world.

    • RR

      H Jerome, you stated:
      “I am amazed how religious organizations today apply this definition of “Apostasy” to any who disassociate or leave THEM. When it is a leaving off of “Christs Teachings” is what an Apostate is, NOT one who leaves a religious organization. Thus, any who do not hold true to or cling to or who deviate from Christ teachings is an Apostate.”

      Let me ask, WHO determines what is “Christ’s Teachings”? You? Me? The Church? If you believe a certain way, and everyone else another, what is that? Someone has to be right, someone has to be wrong. There is only one Truth, everything else is just error.

      To respond to your thought. If I choose to leave the Watchtower Society, and believe and teach something contrary to what they teach and promote, that would make me a JW Apostate. Whether that makes be a Biblical Apostate is open to interpretation. If someone teaches the Trinity, are they apostatizing? What if someone teaches Jesus is not God, but a created being? Are they apostates? That would of course depend …..

      Every denomination has their apostates. Yu said:

      “For example, if Jesus is the Word of God and a man (Charles Taze Russell) says he is God’s Mouthpiece (Word of God), then this is a deviation. (Apostate and antichrist”

      ALL True Christians are God’s mouthpieces. We all speak and represent God. We are ambassadors of Christ. What Pastor Russell stated was not so shocking. You interpret what he said as meaning he is replacing Christ. That certainly is not the case. Don’t put word’s in Russell’s mouth.

      Yu also stated:

      “If Christ says no one (other than the Father) knows when he will return, and a man and organization(s) publish dates (such as 1914), then this is a deviation. (Apostate and antichrist)”

      Did Jesus say he would never know? Did he say we would never know? If that is the case, why give us signs and explicit details as to what would signify his return? Brother Russell did not give us a “day and time”, he gave us a year. There’s a difference.

      • Peter K. (admin)

        RR – Thanks for joining us. I enjoy your contributions.

      • John

        Came here by accident grow up witness not longer one hard to convince these ppl brainwash and they don’t know it

        • Jacqueline

          Hi John and welcome. Many are slowly awakening but the governingbody is hiding their assets for such an awakening. I am sure the July 15, 2013 watchtower will present a problem for some. John I was comforted to see the truth about armageddon as being a takedown of society not judgement day. To see Christ died for ALL od Adam’s children because he ransomed Adam and all that came out of his inward parts. I hope you enjoy this site and if you have questions just ask and we will do the best we can to use scripture to answer. Take Care and glad you found us. In Jesus our Lord, Jacqueline

    • Peter K. (admin)

      Jerome – I do not think you are reading most of our replies to your posts. Prove I am wrong and let me know that you see this.

  • max

    Thank you for your insight. Hope a few more will gives their thoughts.

    • RR

      “Max”, (or whatever name you choose to use) you didn’t sin against me, so why would I have to forgive you? I hold no animosity against you. You simply violated forum rules, after repeatly informing you to tone it down. In fact even after you were banned, you sent personal emails throwing insults. You have a good life.

  • max

    To Dupin;

    I recall saying that the owner was one who held to Charles Taze Russell’s teaching far more than alot of other Bible Students. Why even he believes just like CTR in that Revelation 20:5 is spurious. Keep in mind that CTR believed that because of the material on hand. Today he would probaly look at it differently. Most Bible Students don’t even know about Rev 20:5 so I tip my hat to RR in that he does. I sound so viscious don’t I.
    And the funny thing about that verse is I showed how CTR explained it perfectly. So being spurious he understood its meaning. So my question is, Have I been bad to him or did I compliment him?
    Case in point, Mark 16:9-20. Does CTR believe they are spurious? Look for your answer and insight.

    Have a great day Dupin, and say Hi to RR. And if he has any mercy to forgive me, let me know.

  • max

    To Dupin and Frank;

    When your leader bans someone for life on his forum does that fit with all will be saved. Or when KA slams Victor with bad , mean, language thats Christ like?

    Would Charles Taze Russell stop someone from coming to his site? Didn’t Charles Taze Rullell debate people? Or did he say, you are trying to recruit me your banned?

    You Bible Students on that forum are something else. Lets here your side of the story.

    On this site they allow discussion. So not all Bible Students are the same are they?

    Some are open to discussion some are not.

    • Dupin

      Let’s see Max:

      We are open to discussion over at the Bible Student Forum. And we tolerate some pretty passionate debate over there. But there are limits to how far we will tolerate certain behaviors and you crossed the line, including personally insulting the owner of the site, always a big no-no anywhere you go. You were warned multiple times and took umbrage at the warnings instead of changing your behavior. So you earned the action taken against you. I know since I’m one of the moderators over there.

      Having written that I won’t be drawn into an argument with you over the matter Max. I can, and will debate you on other issues if I choose, but not that.

  • max

    Is it a slander to say God killed children at the flood?

    • Jacqueline

      Good question. But at least we know that all of Adam’s descendents will be resurrected but not the DNA of the angels or their children. Maybe others will answer also. Jacqueline

  • Frank

    Thank you for the free and open discussion – without the fear of being summoned to a Judicial Hearing at the Kingdom Hall, on a charge of Apostasy!

    In a way it’s all quite amusing – since the JWs (Watchtower Society) are regarded as being Apostates by all the traditional churches – principally for rejecting the Divinity of Jesus Christ. And, whatever one’s views on that, it is quite clear from the Bible that Jesus is not just “a special type of Angel” (see Hebrews chapter 1)

    In the 1950s there was considerable debate as to whether the JWs could even be considered “Christian” – principally because the Organization occupies the position in people’s lives that should be reserved for Jesus. Judge for yourselves on the validity of that perception.

    I personally find the JW teachings impossible to accept in the context of Jesus’ teachings. They evidently think that God reduces the question of salvation down to an examination of a person’s beliefs. Hence the HUGE obsession with defining doctrines and teachings, which many times takes them way “beyond the things that are written”. Peter said that “God is not partial, but that in every nation, the person that fears Him and works righteousness is acceptable to Him” (Acts 10:34, 5) Based on my life experience, I have no problem accepting that there are righteous Catholics, Mormons, Anglicans, Pentecostals, Adventists … etc and also Hindus, Muslims, Buddhists and so on. The idea that God will destroy over SEVEN BILLION people just because they didn’t join up with the Watchtower gang and put in field service reports is … horrendous. In fact, it is a slander on God’s Name.
    Glad to discover this site, best wishes to all.

    • Jacqueline

      Frank I just got the oportunity to read your comment and I agree it is a slander on God to think he would kill children for the sins of their parents and billions because they didn’t join a controlling organization. They say this is Christ ruling now thru them. At the JW Memorial this year the elder said we will use 1Cor:11, admitting that the event is in Matt. Mark, Luke. He liked the scolding that the apostle Paul is giving about not partaking unworthily. I sat in shock as he focused entirely on who should not partake. He said now that everyone here understand that most all sitting here are of the great crowd, we will began the memorial. Perhaps 3 min about Christ. He was manuscripted! I sat near the front and he spoke with me before the memorial, asking what congregation I went to. I told him Hobart. My class is there and he seemed so pleased. I know he thought he knew who I was. I was out of town babysitting and went to see what they are like now and help with the kids (mommy sick).
      Frank if we can get your info we can really show you some of the truths especially about Jesus. There is not organization here. You feel free to comment on any of the articles you see here. There are many that read it and can see they are not the only one. Take Care and may Jesus see your sincereness and that your mind is now open to receive him. Sincerely and in Faith Jacqueline

      • Frank

        Good afternoon Jacqueline, really appreciate your kindness, bless you. Am enjoying the site, and in many ways can see we share common fundamentals. After 50 years of Bible Study, Bethel service, a year in solitary confinement courtesy of the government, and years in full-time service, hall building, assembly speaker etc – I just enjoy being around quiet, ordinary people who “walk the walk”. Am NOT into doctrines or prophecy (1 Cor 13). When I see people live quietly, with godly devotion, showing kindness to all, compassion and understanding (even for opposers) – then I am greatly encouraged, knowing there are people sincerely imitating Jesus. I like the general “positivity” of this site. Bashing the Watchtower leaders does help one get rid of some pent up hurt – but ultimately the best is to move on, and live a constructive life, agree? So – thank you for the encouragement, and the positive. And isn’t the internet useful? You guys in Tasmania (correct?) – we’re in (darkest) Africa! God works in strange and wonderful ways. Sincerely, shalom, Frank (No need to reply – can see you are very busy)

        • Jacqueline

          Hi Frank, I went to testimonial meeting tonight with the brothers in my area, it was so uplifting. I am often not in the area physically. But did you know we have adobe connects to convention and it feels like you are there. The logical thoughts and understanding given by different brothers helps you to think and draw conclusions and form thoughts of your own. Our brains had shut down.
          Frank sometimes you have to vent and we will vent with you. If you cry we will cry with. If you want to just be silent and read, we will be silent and read with you. We have all been there. When I was “new” (2010), I was deeply troubled in the middle of the night, I wrote on the site how I felt and just poured my heart out and stated I know noone can hear me. Br. Rus Virgil from Romania typed back, Sr. Jackie I see what you are writing and I am here. How heart warming to see that it was day there and he saw and comforted me with scriptures. So we are here. We can get you in touch with someone near you if you will leave your info on the contact tab.
          You will at first not believe truth lovers can be so real. You lived at Bethel so you know fake, stiff and unreal more than most.Jesus not doubt saw your zeal, like Paul you were slaving for what men saiys to do. Like Paul he has called you and opened your eyes to the simple truth. Not one that needs all that explanation to the point you can explain it to anyone. (ie. ever changing generation thing, governingbody jargon.) But now you can talk, for someone else might have seen it that way, not just what is told to you to believe.It’ called FREEDOM. Take care my brother. In Jesus name, Jacqueline

  • Dupin

    That’s not a bad article Peter:

    As you noted the governing body kind of takes scriptures out of context to get the results they want. And when it comes to enforcing conformity to every “Jot and Tittle” of their version of “law” they usually take the most selfish and hateful path they can dream up and find some sort of scriptural “authority” for. Such are the ways of high-control groups and organizations, its all about conformity at any cost.

    That’s what we see with the governing body’s teachings on “apostates” and constant carping using the harshest scriptures they can dig up, some of which were translated in the NWT that way for just that very purpose. It’s the legacy they have from a real apostate, one who seized the organization and turned it into his own personal empire. As with any such leader he conditioned those around him to think a certain way, the way he wanted them to think, his way. And even the one we know of who had the intellectual capacity and academic training to break free from that conditioning couldn’t. But then Jacqueline could probably write more about that since she’s the one with the Psychological training, mine’s from the Social and Anthropological perspectives.

    The current administration hasn’t the capacity, and I’d gamble with the time they are now having keeping the whole mess together they’re probably scared. So they fall back on that original apostate’s methods and turn the screws tighter, while smearing “apostates” with every low imaginable charge. That’s why they may be headed into trouble in Australia right now as another article here notes. But then, from the perspective of the fellows at the top, who live here, I don’t think they consider it their problem. I seem to recall historically that the one they really look to for their example didn’t either.

    Say what one may about those who still buy into that vision, but most of them are sheep who are skinned and knocked about by shepherds at all levels who only care about two things, prestige and power. Having been one, I really feel for them Brother.

    • Frank

      Thank you, Dupin, enjoy your posts, look forward to reading more.

      Would just like to add that the WT leadership had a good look at what happened with the WorldWide Church of God, and their efforts to “reform” after Armstrong’s death – and how it blew up spectacularly.

      So, sadly, the prospects of the JW reform movement actually accomplishing anything are remote, as you say.

      PS: has anyone heard from Steve Unthank recently? We used to chat by email, on and off, but he has been very quiet for some months.

      Here’s the link for anyone who wants to review events re WWC: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grace_Communion_International#Worldwide_Church_of_God

Leave a Reply

You can use these HTML tags

<a href="" title=""> <abbr title=""> <acronym title=""> <b> <blockquote cite=""> <cite> <code> <del datetime=""> <em> <i> <q cite=""> <s> <strike> <strong>