The Watch Tower Society originally used the term “governing body” in a strict legal sense, and in fact, used the term quite sparingly. As stated in the Watchtower, it was not until “the year 1944 the Watchtower magazine began to speak about the governing body of the Christian congregation (italics theirs).” (Watchtower, Dec. 15, 1971, p. 755) Since the 1950s, the term would frequently be used to refer to the first century, making assertions such as, “The apostle Paul belonged to the governing body in the first century” (Watchtower, April 15, 1951, p. 235 par. 7) without citing any scriptural backup. On the other hand, the magazine described the modern day “Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society, [as] the governing body of Jehovah’s Witnesses.” (Watchtower, Jan. 1, 1950, p. 10 par. 2)
Election of Leaders by Congregation Voting. In the Early Church, brethren met in various cities—Jerusalem, Antioch, Corinth, Thessonalica— often meeting in homes (Acts 11:22:13:1; 1Corinthians 1:2; 1 Thessalonians 1:1; Romans 16:5; Colossians 4:15). Each ecclesia (church group) was autonomous electing its own leaders, its own “Elders—those not necessarily advanced in age, but mature in character.
Acts 14:23 “And when they had ordained them elders in every church, and had prayed with fasting, they commended them to the Lord, on whom they believed.”
How did they “ordain” their leaders? The Greek for “ordained” is “cheirotoneo from a comparative of NT:5495 and teino (to stretch); to be a hand-reacher or voter (by raising the hand).” (Strong’s #5500). Early Christians had the responsibility of voting for their Elders by the stretching forth of their hands!
Twelve Apostles not Succeeded in Authority. The twelve Apostles were chosen directly by Jesus, but they had no replacements except, of course, Paul replaced Judas. Just as Jesus selected the original twelve, he selected Paul as a replacement (Acts 9:15). The other Apostles were well meaning, but premature in selecting the replacement Apostle themselves (Acts 1:26). Inspired by God, they were the “twelve stars” crowning the head of the Early Church (Revelation 12:1); also identified the twelve foundations of the New Jerusalem (Acts 21:14). It would be hard to imagine that Paul as the greatest of the Apostles, would not be numbered among this special group of twelve. There was no “apostolic succession” of any kind for a body of leadership authority through the Christian Age.
The only time one ecclesia recommended a ruling to the brethren at large was when a Jerusalem counsel decided that the Gentile brethren should not be forced to circumcise. And, of course, at that time, there were actual Apostles in the ecclesia of Jerusalem making that recommendation [decree] to “abstain from meat offered to idols…” (Acts 15:22-29).
The independence of the Early Church is attested to by the fact that there were factions among the Corinthian brethren, some following either Paul, Peter or Apollos. Paul said in 1 Cor 3:6-7, “I planted, A-pol’los watered, but God kept making it grow; so that neither is he that plants anything nor is he that waters, but God who makes it grow.” NWT. Paul humbly said that He and Apollos were not anything. Paul did not rule over the brethren. In 1 Thes 2:7 he said, ” we became gentle in the midst of YOU, as when a nursing mother cherishes her own children.” NWT
Alas, as prophetically predicted, very soon the Christian Church evolved into dividing between “clergy” and “laity.” (Acts 20:29; Matt 13:25; Rev 2:20; 1 Jn 2:18; 2 Thes 2:3) On the one hand, some grasping for power took advantage of those ready to let go of their responsibility of electing their own leadership. Gradually a tower of authority built up with priests, bishops and finally a “pope.” Again, the responsibility for decisions and authority to choose leader in the Ecclesia rests with the congregation.
Qualifications for Leadership as Basis for Voting. While the Apostle Paul said the Ecclesia is to submit to and obey those which have “rule over you” (Hebrews 13:7, 17)—Paul also laid guidelines for selecting and voting for those who in the first place would be acceptable leader as an overseer!
When Paul gave Titus the responsibility for instructing new Ecclesias in Crete for organizing their leadership—he certainly was consistent with what he arranged earlier (Acts 14:23). “For this cause left I thee in Crete, that thou shouldest set in order the things that are wanting, and ordain (elect) elders in every city, as I had appointed thee” (Titus 1:5).
Each congregation was responsible for electing Elders who qualified. He then laid out the qualifications for evaluation by the Ecclesia members quite clearly:
- Above reproach (Titus 1:6);
- Husband of one wife with children not unruly;
- Not self-willed, quick-tempered or addicted to wine;
- No striker; not given to filthy lucre (Titus 1:7);
- Hospitable, sensible, just, self-controlled (Titus 1:8);
- Holding fast the faithful word; able to exhort in sound doctrine (1:9)
In his letter to Timothy, Apostle Paul similarly lines up the qualifications for voting for overseers:
- Blameless, the husband of one wife (1 Timothy 3:1,2):
- Vigilant, sober, of good beheaviore, givento hospitality:
- Apt to teach (1 Timothy 3:2);
- Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre;
- Patient, not a brawler, not covetous (1 Timothy 3:3);
- Having his children in subjection with all gravity (1 Timothy 3:4);
- Not a notive (1 Timothy 3:7);
- Of good report of them which are without (1 Timothy 3:7)
Individual Responsibility for Raising the Hand in Voting. Thus, the Ecclesia is given criteria for voting wisely and determining Jehovah’s will for the the selection of their teachers and instructors. Congregations do NOT need to have an outside authoritative body of leaders to tell them what to do and what to think and what to change for “new light.”
Each member is responsible for attempting to determine the LORD’s will and expressing it in voting by the raising of his/her hand. So Bible Students base their leadership selection—as well as activity selections—by the voting of the Ecclesia.
MORE ON ELECTION OF ELDERS BY VOTE
According to the Bible, the election of elders was practiced in the Early Church. The eventual elimination of this practice gradually led to Elders becoming the Lord’s of the Church, rather than its servants and opened the way for the development of the Antichrist system.
Paul and Barnabas went around to all the churches and conducted the election of Elders.
Acts 14: 23 – And in every Church, after prayer and fasting, they selected Elders by show of hands, and commended them to the Lord on whom their faith rested. – Weymouth
Rotherham and Young’s Literal translation say, “appointed to them by vote elders in every assembly.”
RVIC Revised Version Improved and Corrected says, “elected elders.”
In 2 Corinthians Paul speaks of a brother who was elected by the churches to travel with him:
2 Cor 8:19 – … he is the one who was chosen by the vote of the Churches to travel with us… – Weymouth
In another example, we recall that the Apostles asked the Jerusalem Church to select seven deacons.
Acts 6:3 Therefore, brethren, pick out from among yourselves seven men of good repute, full of the Spirit and of wisdom, and we will appoint them to undertake this duty. Weymouth
Who would have challenged the Apostles had they exerted their influence to appoint deacons themselves. Yet instead they humbly asked the Ecclesia to make this selection.
OUR LIBERTY IN CHRIST
Romans 14:4 Who are you to judge the house servant of another? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for Jehovah can make him stand. – NWT
2 Tim 2:7 – 7 For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind. – NKJV
Gal 5:1 – Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage. NKJV
Gal 5:13 – For you, brethren, have been called to liberty; only do not use liberty as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another. NKJV
2Co 3:17 – …where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. NWT
John 8:31, 32 – And so Jesus went on to say to the Jews that had believed him: “If YOU remain in my word, YOU are really my disciples, and YOU will know the truth, and the truth will set YOU free. NWT
DO BIBLE STUDENTS HAVE A GOVERNING BODY?
To find the answer Click here:
perhaps my knowledge of scriptures has offended some or left some speechless,please don’t believe i’m not a believer i am,i’m just unsure why scriptures which show god to be less than merciful or fair aren’t open to discussion.we all know the fairytale beauty and the beast,what we don’t all know is it has origins in scripture with a darker ending than the fairytale.a soldier prayed god would deliver victory unto him & he would give jehovah the first thing that greeted his return home in a sacrifice,that thing was his daughter to which he cried,she however chose to go from her father’s for 3 months & return to be given unto jehovah.(seems like a suicide).also recently a friend was diagnosed with cancer the response was she was made sick by the devil no responsibility was given to god why
No Rachel, You have not offended. Your questions are asked everyday. Essentially you are asking how can a God of Love permit such injustice and wickedness?
The Bible Students generally will take each question and situation and answer with scripture if possible. As they prepare, keep in mind, no one knows all the answers to everything in the Bible.
However, I would like to ask something if I may. They say there is nothing between the lines to read, but in your comments I am reading between the lines. Its like you have a story to tell also. Others may be encouraged or can offer support if you care to tell it to us. While you wait on a reply to your last two comments, would you please, if you’d like, go to the Ask Jacqueline page and start a thread and just write about your experiences. Its an informal page and has no theme. Love to hear from you on that page. Sincerely.
Rachael – We are sorry for delays in our replies. Most of us have full time jobs and a commute to work every day, so time is precious and we are not always able to respond very quickly.
We appreciate your comments on our site. We can see that you are someone who deeply loves God, but that you feel conflicted about apparent inconsistencies in the Bible. If we are told that God is love, why is he apparently sometimes so cruel?
First of all, Jephthah did not kill his daughter (Judges 11). You can find the explanation here:
God is not cruel Rachel. He is loving, kind, comforting and merciful. Click here in order to find out why God permits evil and human suffering.
Read our articles on the Ransom for ALL
Rachel – all the human suffering is temporary. All the people who have suffered and died will come back to life on earth in the future Paradise (God’s earthly kingdom). A mother who’s last memory was watching a sword kill her children then finally her will seemingly instantly wake up on Paradise earth. She will have been asleep in death, with no concept of the passage of centuries. She will know her children are now alive and safe and her whole family will have the opportunity to live forever by simply loving, worshiping and obeying God. The happiness and joy of Paradise earth is inexpressible. But Paradise earth could only be appreciated if mankind experiences the contrast, a sinful and evil world with Satan as “God of this world.” If God had not permitted evil and human suffering, then on Paradise earth, people would have been tempted to pursue evil, not realizing it’s consequences. For humanity’s eternal good, God new it was best to let them suffer for a few decades, so that they could enjoy the earthly kingdom forever.
thanks peter you have given a broader sense of what i understood within the congregation that i had attended.as 4 a god of love perhaps you could enlighten my views of a rather selfish or a god of rather cruel and unusual punishments because didn’t a prophet of god (elijah?) call upon god 2 punish children who were name calling & jehovah sent a bear who devoured them.if this is true & not misintepretation then wasn’t this an abuse by the prophet & a lost chance 4 god 2 bring enlightenment to these children rather than deaths of kids speaking as kids? thanks again
Rachel, you are referring to an episode in 2 Kings 2:23, 24 and you have a good question in regards to God’s apparent cruelty in sending a bear to devour children. A good answer is found in Adam Clark’s Commentary and I hope you will find the answer satisfying.
Clarks Commentary: ” Verse 23. There came forth little children out of the city These were probably the school of some celebrated teacher; but under his instruction they had learned neither piety nor good manners.
Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head.
aleh kereach, aleh kereach. Does not this imply the grossest insult? Ascend, thou empty skull, to heaven, as it is pretended thy master did! This was blasphemy against God; and their punishment (for they were Beth-elite idolaters) was only proportioned to their guilt. Elisha cursed them, i.e., pronounced a curse upon them, in the name of the Lord, beshem Yehovah, by the name or authority of Jehovah. The spirit of their offense lies in their ridiculing a miracle of the Lord: the offense was against Him, and He punished it. It was no petulant humour of the prophet that caused him to pronounce this curse; it was God alone: had it proceeded from a wrong disposition of the prophet, no miracle would have been wrought in order to gratify it.
“But was it not a cruel thing to destroy forty-two little children, who, in mere childishness, had simply called the prophet bare skull, or bald head?” I answer, Elisha did not destroy them; he had no power by which he could bring two she-bears out of the wood to destroy them. It was evidently either accidental, or a Divine judgment; and if a judgment, God must be the sole author of it. Elisha’s curse must be only declaratory of what God was about to do. See on “2Ki 1:10”. “But then, as they were little children, they could scarcely be accountable for their conduct; and consequently, it was cruelty to destroy them.” If it was a judgment of God, it could neither be cruel nor unjust; and I contend, that the prophet had no power by which he could bring these she-bears to fall upon them. But were they little children? for here the strength of the objection lies. Now I suppose the objection means children from four to seven or eight years old; for so we use the word: but the original, nearim ketannim, may mean young men, for katon signifies to be young, in opposition to old, and is so translated in various places in our Bible; and naar signifies, not only a child, but a young man, a servant, or even a soldier, or one fit to go out to battle; and is so translated in a multitude of places in our common English version. I shall mention but a few, because they are sufficiently decisive: Isaac was called naar when twenty-eight years old, {#Ge 21:5-12}; and Joseph was so called when he was thirty-nine, {#Ge 41:12}. Add to these {#1Ki 20:14}: “And Ahab said, By whom shall the Assyrians be delivered into my hand? And he said, Thus saith the Lord, by the YOUNG MEN, benaarey, of the princes of the provinces.” That these were soldiers, probably militia, or a selection from the militia, which served as a bodyguard to Ahab, the event sufficiently declares; and the persons that mocked Elisha were perfectly accountable for their conduct.
But is it not possible that these forty-two were a set of unlucky young men, who had been employed in the wood, destroying the whelps of these same she-bears, who now pursued them, and tore them to pieces, for the injury they had done? We have already heard of the ferocity of a bear robbed of her whelps; see at the end of {#2Sa 17:28}. The mention of SHE—bears gives some colour to the above conjecture; and, probably, at the time when these young fellows insulted the prophet, the bears might be tracing the footsteps of the murderers of their young, and thus came upon them in the midst of their insults, God’s providence ordering these occurrences so as to make this natural effect appear as a Divine cause. If the conjecture be correct, the bears were prepared by their loss to execute the curse of the prophet, and God’s justice guided them to the spot to punish the iniquity that had been just committed.
thanks jacqueline for your reply,it seems a little neat though as again my point is jesus and god didn’t say a woman couldn’t minister, sorry i can’t remember books and verses by heart but i remember 4 fact the paragraph about phoebe being a minster was in the same book as the 1 commanding a woman to hold her tongue in church; u’ll have 2 forgive me but it seems many j.w’s and the author of this particular verse are misoginysts.also having studied the scriptures i find it hard to believe every word is 100% true.the mistreatment of women by apparently god fearing men is open; apparent. i would like 2 know why inconvenient truths are skimmed over or never mentioned?
Rachael – Women should have a voice in the congregation. 1 Cor 11:5 allows women to pray and prophesy in the Church. Paul defines “prophesying” in 1 Cor 14:3 as speaking “edification and exhortation and consolation.” In Bible Student Ecclesias (congregations), sisters participate equally in the studies with the men and express their point of view, even if it is different than the view of the elected elder who is leading the study. At our annual elections woman are eligible to be elected for various opportunities for service (i.e. Children’s Bible Class Committee, Recording Secretary, Treasurer, etc.).
The Apostle Paul puts things in perspective in 1 Cor 11:11-12 saying, “However, in the Lord, neither is woman independent of man, nor is man independent of woman. For as the woman originates from the man, so also the man has his birth through the woman; and all things originate from God.”
Rachael, the problem is not that everything in the Bible is not 100% true. It is. The problem is misinterpretations of God’s word. Once we go down the path of saying the Bible is not perfectly inspired and is not always true, at that point we can make the Bible be anything we want it to be. When ever we disagree with the Bible we can conclude it is wrong. When we arrive at this point, we are not standing on the sure foundation of scriptures, but we are standing on quicksand and cannot be sure of anything.
The Bible promotes respect and love for all people, men and women. Other conclusions are largely based on misunderstandings of what the Bible is saying.
We don’t believe any scriptures prevent women from speaking in the Church. I believe you are concerned about 1 Cor 14:34. So let’s talk about it.
WOMEN SILENT IN CHURCH?
1 Cor 14: “34 Let your women keep silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak; but they are to be submissive, as the law also says. 35 And if they want to learn something, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is shameful for women to speak in church.” NKJV
This passage appears to be saying that women cannot speak in the Church, but there are problems with taking the scripture at face value as stated:
3 PROBLEMS:
1) In 1 Cor 11:5, Paul permits women to pray and prophesy with her head covered. (Prophesying = speaking edification, exhortation and consolation per 1 Cor 14:3).
2) “as says the law” The Old Testament no where says this, or anything like it. Commentators can only refer to Gen 3:16 which says, “Your desire shall be for your husband, And he shall rule over you.” NKJV However, this does not say that women must remain silent.
3) In 1 Tim 2:11 & 12, the women’s silence is in the context of NOT TEACHING, not that she cannot can not contribute a comment in a Bible study (as long as she is not the study leader.) Hence we can harmonize this with 1 Cor 11 which allows her to speak (not teach) with her head covered.
BIBLE JEWISH LAW VERSES MAN MADE JEWISH LAW
The solution is that Paul was NOT stating his own point of view, but instead was quoting some of the Corinthian brethren, then arguing against it. This view of the women keeping silent apparently came from invented Jewish laws which would not permit women to speak at the synagogue. (Hence Paul quotes them using the word “law.”)
Notice how Paul argues against this point of view:
1 Cor 14:36 “Or did the word of God come originally from you? Or was it you only that it reached?” – NKJV
In order words, Paul is arguing against them (and the Jewish teachers) inventing these rules that are not actually written in the Bible.
DO NOT FORBID SPEAKING
Another (less likely) point of view is that Paul is discussing speaking in tongues in 1 Cor 14, and when he says “do not forbid to speak in tongues” in verse 39, that argues against their belief that the women should “keep silent” from verse 34.
COULD PAUL REALLY BE QUOTING THE CORINTHIAN BRETHREN?
The three scriptures below demonstrate that Paul did not always indicate when he was quoting or personifying. I think these examples lend support to the idea that Paul was quoting some of the Corinthian brethren who felt sisters could not speak in the Church at all, and then arguing against their point of view.
1 Cor 6:13 – Foods for the stomach and the stomach for foods” NKJV
Barnes Notes Commentary says, “This has every appearance of being an adage or proverb.” Apparently Paul was quoting a common proverb of the day, but he does not say he is quoting, since it was likely so common, that he did not need to.”
Rom 7:9 – “I was alive once without the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died.” NKJV
Paul can not be speaking about himself here since he was NEVER alive without the law. In fact, he was born under it. In Romans 7, Paul is personifying the Jewish People who were alive without the Law (before Moses), but Paul never says this, so many make the mistake of thinking Paul is talking about himself.
1 Cor 13:11 – “When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things.” NKJV
Paul is personifying the early Church showing that the gifts were necessary in their infancy, but would pass away as they matured and the New Testament Bible was completed.
Dear Jaquie
I tried to see what article on disfellowshipping was the web buzzing about but wasn’t sure if you meant on DFbecause of accepting a blood transfusion or any sort of DF. There is material on the AJWRB website about a letter to the government of Bulgaria that implies that the WTS was saying that JWs in Bulgaria who accepted blood transfusions would not be disfellowshipped. THis was said because JW was trying to get government permission to be recognized as a religion in that country. When some people asked about why an exception for Bulgarian JWs, WTS replied they needn’t have to DF nayone on that basis because by doing so, the person had kind of DF themselves, but that they were welcome to repent and re-associate with JWs. Did you hear about that? It is pretty old anyway. Sounds a little confusing. Its on their home page.
Funny that you went to your last JW convention in August 2009 and I started going to meetings again now in my mid thirties (after being free since I was 18 but had no religion to fill in any spiritual needs) in December of that same year. So I went to the Feb, May and (October?) conventions during this year. I was also impressed by the more common reference to the GB, compared to 17 years ago.
The trip into the organization cost me almost a marriage separation (as my husband said he hadn’t planned on being married to a JW), we even got to the courts for the beginning of a child custody battle. The split, which only lasted a month but involved moving city, renting a house and getting a lawyer, cost me plenty of money that I would have rather used to visit my home country and family with my older son….. A pretty big luxury it was, to delve in the WTS. A wreck of a year. At least it made a little more spiritual and now i am updated enough to note the discrepancies so that I won’t drag my kids into it.
I guess that for ex-JWs who still want to serve Jehovah but not in the WTS the next best thing is meeting with the BS. However, I do not feel ready to take on a new set of doctrines before having to analyze these too. After the Studies in the Scriptures did each group carry on with its own study and found “new light” or do all BS stick to the teachings of the this very old series? What do you make about the pyramids in Russell’s interpretations of the bible? Is that obsolete for you or not?
Do you think that Russell was the FDS? If he was, why just one person and that was all? Who is the FDS according to BS?
Sorry about my name not being my own but I haven’t yet said a word to the Elders. I don’t know if I should write to them and be DF or DA or just not go there anymore. I was known to be the newbie anyway, so they won’t be too shocked that I dissappear.
I thought it was pretty depressing that in the whole year that I went to Sunday meetings there was never any new student. It is a really small congregation so it would be really celebrated. Seems like it just didn’t catch!
I am glad to know that you are happy with the BS. During the yar I got one dear aunt from my home country to take on a “Bible Study” with JWs there. She is really happy with it but I don’t think she will swallow all the pill as she is a bit of an independent thinker and a bit stubborn, though for now she says that she takes whatever they say as truth. She was a bit dissapointed about me drifting off and that she will hang on for now, but said she would look into what ever I found good. But I don’t know yet what to do. I appreciate that here we can talk about things openly.
Looking forward to your reply!
Mrs Researcher
Mrs Researcher – It is a joy to have you on our site. We are really enjoying your comments. Your questions are addressed to Jacqueline and I will let her answer them. However, I will mention that, in case you haven’t noticed, we do have comments on the Great Pyramid here. Those who appreciate the Great Pyramid, view it as corroborative evidence of what the Bible already teaches. Although many find it amazing, if it were not considered, nothing would change about our views of what the Bible teaches.
We have not yet posted an article on “The Faithful and Discreet Slave,” although we hope to do so in the coming weeks. In the meantime, you may find this material about the Seven Churches of Revelation of interest. Whatever ones thoughts on the Faithful and Discreet Slave, nothing should take the place of the personal responsibility for Bible Study and personal conclusions on what to believed based on conscience, reason, honesty and objectivity in that study and particularly on the combined and harmonious weight of scriptural evidence on a given topic.
Hello Mrs. Researcher,
It is commendable that as a young person you are making sure of all things. You are to be commended. I am so sorry to hear about your marriage scare, glad both of you were able to work it out. Many witnesses can’t now a days.
On DF, I was speaking of the many blogs, they seem to have stepped it up on discussions on DF and the blood issue. Most didn’t have scripture proof. I posted the links from this site to let them know of our articles.
Yes, I find it comfortable and enjoy association withe BS. My Family was a mixture of both as I grew up. My mom and I attended both BS and JW for the first twelve yrs of my life. And in the segregated South in my day, Rutherford’s regime hadn’t broke through. Most of our brothers were reared as BS and wasn’t as connected to the society until after desegregation.
There haves been many humble servants used by Jesus to spearhead his work down thru the Centuries. I personally believe Br. Russell was one of them. He once said “New light does not replace old light, it just makes it brighter.” I use the Bible commentary often when commenting on call in programs and our weekly Bible Study. He nor any man has everything 100% as far as understanding scripture. But like prophets, Bible writers and men down through the centuries, especially those mentioned in Heb. chapter 11 he lent himself to being used by Jehovah,Jesus and Holy Spirit.
Your Aunt might be able to find the peace she is looking for now in JW. I have many relatives still witnesses, some satisfied, some are waiting on Jehovah to clean things up. I also now have some that have left and found Christ in various House Churches and small groups meetings.Since it is public knowledge that I am gone some nieces have let me know what they are doing. It pays to talk. Now they know they are not alone in the family.
We really appreciate your comments. Don’t give up in your fight to worship freely and openly ask and discuss questions. Many will see your comments and your young age and get comfort.
I know that many leave at 18 but come back and can see faster when something is incorrect. Some your age however have grown up only knowing the GB. They are difficult to speak with. From infancy they have been indoctrinated that the GB is the way to God. Maybe some will see your post. Keep them coming my LITTLE SISTER, Love and Peace.
Hello all
I just thought I would point out an example of the claim to leadership that the GB is giving now almost on a weekly basis:
Paragraph 4 of the article “Our Active Leader Today” (WT 15/09/2010 page 26) says:
“as Head of the Christian congregation, Christ has used this “faithful and discreet slave” to administer His Kingdom interests on earth. He has provided direction for the anointed “domestics” (meaning the other anointed not in the GB-my comment) and their “other sheep” companions by means of a Governing Body.-John 10:16.”
John 10:16 refers to the “other sheep” and “one flock”, nothing about having a smaller fraction of the FDS that is appointed upon the rest of himself (the other 9,000 anointed)!! Note here they are being clear that most of the little flock (all the anointed) does not feed anyone.
This is sick and circular logic: we have a FDS that is appointed to feed himself and the other sheep and we say that this FDS is the GB with no biblical suggestion of a smaller flock within little flock that is in charge of ALL the sheep (shouldn’t Christ himself be in charge? After all, He is the Shephard!
And to think that I sat though this study without noticing any of these flaws only few days ago. WT can even say these things in their study and most followers won’t even think anything about it other than it’s a blessing…
In Christ
Mrs. Researcher,
I left because of the GB inserting itself at every meeting. Circular reasoning as you stated. I would count the times like a little child the mention of Jesus, Jehovah, and GB. Governing body won every time, next Jehovah and Jesus wasn’t mentioned at all at some meetings. It started me to thinking whether or not demons had infiltrated for Satan. They say without shame that you can not get to Jehovah unless you accept the GB. I sid this is it I walked out in August 2009 and have never looked back. I feel so good free and clean now.It feels great to have Holy Spirit in your life and be able to acknowledge and bend my knee in humble submission to Jesus.
Were you at the convention about 2002 when they said at the end of the convention “This convention was brought to you by the Governing Body of -witnesses’? I try not to use the precious name of our father with these men.) I looked around and everyone was clapping, prayer had been said. I felt disgust.(This was Rockford Il.)
At the Birmingham, Al convention in 2009 after prayer the chairman said,”Remember the GB loves you.” Some of us froze, most clapped. (And then they drank the Cool Aid–Jim Jones) He sounded like a Cult leader, he put his Bible under his arm and marched off the stage like a SS guard. This too was at the end. The chairman knew he wouldn’t have to deal with those that objected.
I never returned to another District convention. I attended the BS General Convention in Johnstown Pa in 2010. It was 6 days and a breath of fresh air.
Peace
why are jehovah’s witnesses so against women in their halls having a voice.after all in the bible their is a small paragraph that states our sister phoebe is a minister with her own congregation. surely she had a message to impart. & jesus didn’t say anything n regards to a woman leading worship.are the minister of the witnesses so afraid of having their authority questioned that theygive a mere man the unquestioned authority we are supposed to give only to god& his son jesus
Hi Rachael,
I am still learning new things with the BS on this subject. They are more respectful in Christ with sisters.
The witnesses are correct when stating that sisters are not to teach in the congregation. The teaching to the Congregation takes place from the platform. This is in accord with scriptures. 1Tim.2:11-12.1Cor.14 chapter is talking about order, I think in the congregation and respect not so much for men as for God,Jesus, holy spirit and the congregation’s order. “For God is a God of order not disorder.”
Yet, they are inconsistent. Sisters actually do teach from the platform. Ministry School, they argue sisters are teaching their householder. Then they can do it from the space in front of the stage. We were teaching from the platform, brothers and sisters will often ask for clarification on the subject matter, not your presentation or demonstration. I was on one of the first ministry school programs for women. Announced to us at the 1958 convention in New York, I was there as a child. Many sisters would not give talks at first, some were confused about the teaching aspect from the platform.
Maybe a BS can comment on this now that they see the witness set-up. (excuse me also for not writing scriptures, I am traveling and have no Bible on me.)
I feel this is a good point as many sisters will want to know from the Bible Students:
“What does the Bible Really Teach about a Women’s role in the congregation?
A sister closed in pray at our class(she had a head covering). And women are invited to pray at our Bible readings on Sunday with all ex-witness elders and witnesses present. So this being said maybe we can move to the ask Jacqueline page and let the original BS give us their scriptural thought.Thank you for your question, it is a good one. Sister will appreciate this.
Actually, Paul did not replace Judas as one of the twelve apostles originally selected by Jesus. Acts 1:21-26 makes it clear that Matthias was so designated by lot. And as for the selection of elders mentioned in Acts 14:21-23, in Lystra, Iconium, and Antioch, the account makes it clear that both Paul and Barnabas played a major role in the selection of elders in those city groups. Now, doubtless the local brothers had their say and their wishes were taken into account. But the text does not allow an interpretation of this being done wholly, solely, and completely by local Christians.
This is not to say that I agree with the WTS and its way of appointing elders. It is clear from many accounts that holy spirit has nothing to do with the process in place in JW congregations. But to say that the early Christian congregation did so entirely through some democratic mechanism is in error as well, I believe. Holy spirit was working in a marvelous way back then, in a way I do not believe it is active now. Holy spirit was involved in Matthias’ election as one of the Twelve Witnesses to Jesus’ resurrection, and it was also involved in selecting Paul and Barnabas for their missionary work.
–Acts 1:21-26; 13:2
Doubtless, those groups that did not have direct contact with apostles like Paul and Barnabas or others sent from the Twelve in Jerusalem, selected their leaders in ways that seemed good to them. Considering the methods of transportation and communication in those days, consultation with a so-called “Governing Body” in Jerusalem would have been slow, inefficient, and wasteful. The fact of the matter is the Bible is silent on how local groups and congregations functioned. What mattered most to them was spreading the gospel and living the kind of lives that would merit divine approval.
Hi Jon, I wanted to respond to some of your comments. You wrote:
“Jesus’ ransom will only cover those who have died naturally of Adamic sin (due to no fault of their own) and not through an act of judgment that Jehovah had brought upon themselves because of their refusal to listen to advance sound warning and advice given and to act upon it.”
I was reading on http://www.watchtower.org/e/bh/article_07.htm the section ‘Who will be resurrected’ at the bottom and appreciated the generosity expressed:
‘19 What about all the people who did not serve or obey Jehovah because they never knew about him? These billions of “unrighteous” ones will not be forgotten. They too will be resurrected and given time to learn about the true God and to serve him.’
But was disappointed with this statement – because I don’t think it harmonizes with the ‘ransom for all’.
‘Although Jesus will have a role in judging the living and the dead, Jehovah is the final Judge. (Acts 10:42) He will never resurrect those whom he judges to be wicked and unwilling to change.’
We have scriptures that imply that people who lived in Sodom will be coming back – the judgment they received in the past was not final – because they are coming back:
Matthew 11:23 “And you, Capernaum, will not be exalted to heaven, will you? You will descend to Hades; for if the miracles had occurred in Sodom which occurred in you, it would have remained to this day.
Matthew 11:24 “Nevertheless I say to you that it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for you.”
This says that if the miracles that occurred in Capernaum had occurred in Sodom the Sodomites would have repented and would have been forgiven – which means that they did not have a full opportunity to understand God’s purposes and so to be convicted and come to repentance. Plus, Jesus offered himself a ransom for all (1 Ti. 2:6) and He said in John 14:6 ‘no one comes to the Father except thru me’ – then all (including the Sodomites) must have the opportunity to learn about Jesus and then choose whether they want to accept Him as their Savior or not.
If we look at what Jesus did while on earth – he would speak to the multitudes in parables – and he would explain the meaning only to his disciples – we do not find him trying to “convert” the multitudes.
Luke 8:9 His disciples began questioning Him as to what this parable meant.
Luke 8:10 And He said, “To you it has been granted to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God, but to the rest it is in parables, so that SEEING THEY MAY NOT SEE, AND HEARING THEY MAY NOT UNDERSTAND.
At the first advent he said that he came to “save” the world, not to “judge” it (John 12:47). He said ‘Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations’ (Mat. 28:19). I believe we live in the same dispensation as Jesus when we are to ‘make disciples’ and not ‘convert the world’ – the latter is a mission of Christ and His bride during the 1000 yr Kingdom.
Also, Jon, regarding your statement:
‘If however that you feel that ransom covers all, how is it then that when Jesus spoke to the pharisee class he said of them “How are you to exscape gehenna”(total destruction) Also if that was the case there would be no point in the sheep (herd)like people working hard by stripping off the old personallty putting on the lord Jesus christ and washing their robes to make them white in the blood of the lamb if the out-come is going to be the same for both parties, it dosen’t make sense’
Jon – The statement, ‘How are you to escape Gehenna’ does not mean that is not possible to escape it – just that with their present attitude they were in danger of being doomed, unless they changed.
While on the cross Jesus said – ‘forgive them for they know not what they do’ (notice that the rulers were present when He said that) – and Apostle Paul also said that the ‘rulers acted in ignorance’ – and offered them the opportunity to repent:
Luk 23:34 And Jesus said, Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing. And dividing His garments, they cast a lot. Psa. 22:18
Luk 23:35 And the people stood watching. And the rulers with them also scoffed, saying, He saved others; let Him save Himself, if this One is the Christ, the Elect of God.
Act 3:17 And now, brothers, I know that you acted according to ignorance, as also did your rulers.
Act 3:18 But what things God before proclaimed through the mouth of all His prophets, that the Christ should suffer, He fulfilled in this manner.
Act 3:19 Therefore, repent, and convert, for the blotting out of your sins, so that times of refreshing may come from the face of the Lord,
And lastly, regarding your last statement:
“That’s why the preaching work is so important at this time lives are at risk here people need to be made aware of the issue at stake and for them to make their own choice as their eternal welfare is in the same situation as in Noah’s day.”
Wouldn’t it be better to leave them in ignorance now since they will have a much better chance of accepting the truth in the Kingdom, when everything will be made plain and there will be no doubt as what the truth is? Where in the present time, if you preach to them they may not understand it clearly and so reject it.
Hello Jon,
Correct me if I am wrong but the witnesses now teach that the separating work is judgement day during the 1000 yr. reign.
I agree the witnesses, Jews, gypsies and others suffered under the Nazi regime. That is sad, it does not matter why they suffered it was satanic. Many Germans suffered also because they helped the Jews. Cambodia and the Black slave issue are two other Satanic issues,and perhaps more that can be mentioned.
Jehovah Witnesses are not the only ones that suffer injustices. It does not matter why they suffer. I think if you are a Jew, Cambodian, Gypsies, Slave etc, if someone cuts your head off that is awful to you and your love ones.
I have mentioned on this web-site my reason for leaving and on the ask Jacqueline tab I will began a blog of my life first as a Black female JW growing up in the segregated south and how we functioned in regard to connection with the society. It was different.
I found a letter on this web-site that could have been written by me. http://ex-jw.com/elder-shares-honest-opinions. He is dead on as to what my issues are. also I had more of a direct dealing on the pedophile issue. I talk about in on ask Jacqueline. Also http://www.sixscreensofthewatchtower has just one part of my final straw, when I left. It is an audio, I am talking.
You might ask, why do I refer you to these sites rather than telling my story again here?
First, most ex-witnesses leave for the same reason. Refusal to worship the golden calf, the governing body.
Second, I am a holistic alternative psychology practitioner. This is the M.i.N.D.S. approach to healing.
DON”T KEEP’making a negative impression on the parts of your brain that records. Every time you repeat in detail a negative experience it embeds deeper on the brain. You want to heal by seeking a solution and moving forward, if only one step at a time. It is different from traditional psychology, that remembers and confronts constantly. So please excuse me and check the sites that I have mentioned to better understand why I left. I will write about the good times in my blog on ask Jacqueline. I don’t believe in throwing out the baby with the dishwater. until later my brother.
In Christ
I did mean to say up till and during the great tribulation. Your quite right and I stand to be corrected.
Can I ask you a personal question and I do fully understand if you do not wish to reply what was it that changed your mind?
For me personaly Jacqueline I can’t find no fault with the witnesses(that’s not to say their perfect of course) scriptually even though changes have been made and recognised for the need to move ahead. Although I’m not totally nieve, I do of coruse see and get to hear of some questionable matters of cercumstances, but then dont you get that any-where you go.I really can’t under stand that why a people, such as the witnesses spend so much time promoting Biblical truths trying to show great in-depth love for their fellow man and yet at the same time,they are of one of the most villified and hated religions about, Even by those who also claim to be of a Christ like nature.
For instance as you may know well, During the first and second world war (and recent times too!)when the supposed christian nations were fighting amongst themselves and trying to drum up suport for their war effort from whom-ever they could force them to join in it, The Jehovah’s witness refused to get involved to be counted as part of that mass slaughter, and bcause of their stance on neutral grounds and applying the scriptual views of Christ, many hundreds (if not thousands) were executed for this refusal. They were subjected to firing squads, decapitations, and other forms of annialations, some were made to stand in barrels all night and day long in freezing cold weather whilst having cold water poured over them, and so they by froze to death.
On the other hand you have many individuals of a number of religions who are prepared to not only die for their belief but kill others in the process and even those who dont join them. The blood of alltthese ones the holy one the ones who have witness about christ and all the innocent ones of the earth over the thousands of years, their blood has reached the bridle of a horse mouth(showing the magnitude or scale of slaughter of the innocent ones) Jehovah hasen’t forgotten you know and will rectify the situation in time.