This 45 minute video takes you through testimonials and music from the Early Bible Students of Pastor Russell’s day. Video Clips from the Photodrama of Creation are included. The people you see testifying are among the 75% of Bible Students who left the Watchtower because they would not follow J.F. Rutherford in his takeover of the Society and whom he labeled “Evil Slaves.” What do you think? Do you think these Bible Students are actually Evil Slaves? Or do you think they are spirit filled Christians? Just what do you think about these Bible Students? Let us know your opinion. You can of course comment anonymously. (Many of the testimonies are at the end of the video.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCjS9B4QVtM
You surely set a lot of subjects, and I will try to answer them as better as I can. As for Adam: If you do not accept brother Franz’s narration about his conversation with brother Russell that is your option. According to the holy Scriptures our Lord died for all mankind except for those who sinned on purpose, like Adam and Eve. He died INSTEAD OF Adam, not FOR Adam. Jehovah arranged to have a perfect man voluntarily sacrifice his life. According to Romans 6:23, “the wages sin pays is death.” In sacrificing his life, the ransomer would “taste death for every man.” In other words, he would pay the wage for Adam’s sin. (Hebrews 2:9; 2 Corinthians 5:21; 1 Peter 2:24) This would have profound legal consequences. By nullifying the death sentence upon Adam’s obedient offspring, the ransom would cut off the destructive power of sin right at its source.—Romans 5:16. Adam and Eve could not have benefited from the ransom. The Mosaic Law stated this principle regarding a willful murderer: “You must take no ransom for the soul of a murderer who is deserving to die.” (Numbers 35:31) Clearly, Adam and Eve deserved to die because they willingly and knowingly disobeyed God. They thereby gave up their prospect of everlasting life.(cl 138-147). Watchtower always supported and still does the Ransom of our Reedeemer for all mankind. ‘’While it is true that Christ’s ransom sacrifice was given for mankind in general, Jesus indicated that its actual application nevertheless would be limited when he said: “Just as the Son of man came, not to be ministered to, but to minister and to give his soul a ransom in exchange for many.” (Mt 20:28) Jehovah God has the right to refuse to accept a ransom for anyone he deems unworthy. Christ’s ransom covers the sins an individual has because of being a child of sinful Adam, but a person can add to that by his own deliberate, willful course of sin, and he can thus die for such sin that is beyond coverage by the ransom.Sin against the holy spirit. Jesus Christ said that one who sinned against the holy spirit would not be forgiven in the present system of things nor in that to come. (Mt 12:31, 32) A person whom God judged as having sinned against the holy spirit in the present system of things would therefore not profit by a resurrection, since his sins would never be forgiven, making resurrection useless for him. Jesus uttered judgment against Judas Iscariot in calling him “the son of destruction.” The ransom would not apply to him, and his destruction already being a judicially established judgment, he would not receive a resurrection.—Joh 17:12.To his opposers, the Jewish religious leaders, Jesus said: “How are you to flee from the judgment of Gehenna ?” (Mt 23:33) His words indicate that these persons, if they did not take action to turn to God before their death, would have a final adverse judgment entered against them. If so, a resurrection would accomplish nothing for them. This would also appear to be true of “the man of lawlessness.”—2Th 2:3, 8;Paul speaks of those who have known the truth, have been partakers of holy spirit, and then have fallen away, as falling into a condition in which it is impossible “to revive them again to repentance, because they impale the Son of God afresh for themselves and expose him to public shame.” The ransom could no longer help them; hence they would receive no resurrection. The apostle goes on to liken such ones to a field that produces only thorns and thistles and is therefore rejected and ends up being burned. This illustrates the future before them: complete annihilation.—Heb 6:4-8.Again, Paul says of those who “practice sin willfully after having received the accurate knowledge of the truth, [that] there is no longer any sacrifice for sins left, but there is a certain fearful expectation of judgment and there is a fiery jealousy that is going to consume those in opposition.” He then illustrates: “Any man that has disregarded the law of Moses dies without compassion, upon the testimony of two or three. Of how much more severe a punishment, do you think, will the man be counted worthy who has trampled upon the Son of God and who has esteemed as of ordinary value the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and who has outraged the spirit of undeserved kindness with contempt? . . . It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.” The judgment is more severe in that such ones are not merely killed and buried in Sheol, as were violators of the Law of Moses. These go into Gehenna, from which there is no resurrection.—Heb 10:26-31.Peter writes to his brothers, pointing out that they, as “the house of God,” are under judgment, and he then quotes from Proverbs 11:31 (LXX) warning them of the danger of disobedience. He here implies that their present judgment could end with a judgment of everlasting destruction for them, just as Paul had written.—1Pe 4:17, 18.The apostle Paul also tells of some who will “undergo the judicial punishment of everlasting destruction from before the Lord and from the glory of his strength, at the time he comes to be glorified in connection with his holy ones.” (2Th 1:9, 10) These would therefore not survive into the Thousand Year Reign of Christ, and since their destruction is “everlasting,” they would receive no resurrection’’( see it2 –Ressurection). This analysis is based upon the Holy Scriptures.
As for the congrgational election of elders, brother Russell adopt this attitude probably bcause of the influence in the Congregational Church , he once belonged(even though not a member of them).Moreover, a misrepresantation of the Scriptures is made on that point because of the verb χειροτονέω-χειροτονῶ, that Paul uses in Acts 14: 23 which literally means “ raise my hand “. As a proffessor of the ancient greek and latin language, I can assure you that the same verb χειροτονέω-χειροτονήσαντες (‘’δὲ αὐτοῖς πρεσβυτέρους’’ as it continues) also have the meaning of simply appoint. Now who did appoint them? The church members? NOT AT ALL! Paul and Barnabas,the representatives of the apostles and the elders in Jerusalem(the governing body of that time). How did they do that? In 1 Tim. 4: 3, Paul sais that the elders did put their hands upon Timothy- that is ‘’RAISE their hands UPON Timothy’’ that is ‘’χειροτονήσαντες’’(‘’μετά επιθέσεως τῶν χειρων τοῦ πρεσβυτερίου) and pay attention, Not the congrgation but the ELDERS who were submissive to the christian church of Jerusalem. That is the biblical example and JWs follow the same pattern even they do not ‘’lay their hands’’ unto the new elders or deacons but simply make the announcment in the local congrgation after the approval of the GB. Do you accept that pattern or do you follow the teachings of a man? Brother Russell did try for the best in his time and later Jehovah’s light did luminate this aspect more and more.
As for the Revelation unto the first -century churches , keep in mind that God did not DIRECTLY give the visions to them but to the apostle John who was representing
The faithful slave in his time . Also , notice that even from the first chapter , we see the kind of leadership the churches should follow: ‘’A revelation by Jesus Christ, which God gave him, to show his slaves the things that must shortly take place… in signs through him to his slave John…”. First we obey God and Christ and then comes the ‘’John class’’ ,that is the faithful slave- through him is the spiritual food to the Household of Faith.Whoever dissapproves him , dissapprove God himself , who appointed him (Mat.24:45). As for the claim that we are ‘’emloyees’’ of a publishing house and that we are not a corporation of Christians (such as the Dawn for you)- I take it simply as ridiculous.What do you say about the Bible Society in England that sent missionaries throughout the world??????? They did not belong to the Church of England???????They were not Christians?
As for the organization in the early Watch Tower and the modern one ( we do not separate it) I will answer you by the hymn 337 in the ‘’Hymns of the Millenial Dawn’’: ‘’We are not divided/All one body we/One in hope and doctrine/one in charity’’(verse 3).I think that the matter is closed and I’m not inclined to hear any more arguments on the subject. The Bible is so clear about it.
As for the Harvest Work, find me one single word to prove that the Society said that before 1914 our brothers did not preach the kingdom. There is none such evidence nowhere.
About the new songbook, mentioned in the last(so far) answer. What is so wrong about singing hymns about the Bride of Christ, the holy remnant who gives us the spiritual food? Notice that we do sing hymns ABOUT the remnant not TO the remnant. WE ONLY PRAISE AND SING HYMNS TO JEHOVAH GOD AND TO OUR LORD JESUS, not to any man. But we thank and praise Jesus for using His annointed ones to guide and shepherd us.
‘’ A little flock , so calls He thee
Who bought thee with His blood!
A little flock disowned of men
But owned and loved from God’’
( hymn 6 Hymns of Dawn )
We are trully blessed for following Christ and His little flock. We will stay for ever in His pastures now and forever.
‘’ AS FOR ME AND MY HOUSE WE SHALL SERVE THE LORD’’
( Joshua 24: 15)
I think honestly that I gave you any scriptural support in all these matters exist. That makes me truly a Bible Student as all Jehovah’s Witnesses are. You have not given a single verse from the BIBLE of what you believe on but you rather go into several accussations about Christ’s church that lead to nothing . May you join us again.
Anonymous said,
“When I said ” right or wrong” I did not mean in doctrinal issues but in interpretations and assumptions that cannot be proved yet.”
Rank and file JW’s have absolutely no choice but to accept ALL interpretations and assumptions of the WTBTS or risk being disfellowshipped for apostasy. Consider all the changes regarding the “Generation That Will Not Pass Away”. This is not doctrinal in the same way that Trinity or Hellfire is, yet at any point during the societies several changes to this teaching, if one was to speak out against it would have brought about swift punishment from the organization. The same is true regarding the “Higher Authorities”. The real TRUTH here is that you have absolutely NO CHOICE but to be submissive to the leadership in all matters whether doctrinal, interpretive or otherwise. This is why, one day JW’s can believe one thing and then the next day all 7,000,000+ of them can have a different take on the subject. Is it because they all took the time to do the research and arrived at their own bible based conclusions at the same time, no. It’s because the organization (Mother) told them what to believe and to do otherwise would result in their being disfellowshipped. In fact the leadership has went as far to say that it’s not necessary for individual JW’s to do a lot of independent research because they have many brothers at Bethel to do that for them! This is in print in their publications. Hardly the Berean Bible Study Method is it? That they can all change their mind on a teaching overnight is in fact proof that they follow (must follow) the Governing Body and not the Bible. Now tell me who’s involved in creature worship. The Governing Body has become an idol to millions of unwitting rank and file members. Following the Faithful and Discreet Slave is even sung about in their new song book!
Anonymous said,
“Even Jesus submit himself to the Jewish system of Worship when he was on earth(READ Mat.23:3).David refused to kill Saul because he was the Lord’s Anointed .Paul apologized himself because he insulted, without knowing it , Jehovah’s anointed, the High Priest.”
Because the above statement was true back then does not mean that one should likewise be in submission to the Watchtower Society today. It does not prove that the organization is Jehovah’s anointed, system or sole channel of communication. The thought that it is such, is something promoted by the Society itself and is unprovable. It is strictly a matter of faith, misplaced faith at that. After Jesus’ first advent all the systems you spoke of above were done away with. Jesus deals directly with each body member via the Holy Spirit (and no Acts 15 does not prove that Yahweh has always had an organization). Each member of the body has varying gifts and adds to the overall harmony of the Church.
Anonymous said,
“Nevertheless, I will not ever allow the imperfection of men to make me go away from God’s Organization.”
Yahweh’s organization today is the Church and the Church alone! To say that Jehovah’s Witnesses are Yahweh’s modern day organization is an opinion only! One that cannot be proven from his word the Bible. It is strictly a matter of faith of a mislead flock and is currently, frantically being proclaimed in the pages of their literature and from their podium’s in an effort to keep that mislead flock under their thumb.
Dennis
This ought to be a short message.When I said ” right or wrong” I did not mean in doctrinal issues but in interpetations and assumptions that cannot be proved yet. It is true that many explanations on the Scriptures come out when the prophecies are completely fulfiled. Even Jesus submit himself to the jewish system of Worship when he was on earth(READ Mat.23:3).David refused to kill Saul because he was the Lord’s Annointed .Paul apologized himself because he insulted, without knowing it , Jehovah’s annointed, the High Priest.Of course we will not do something that it is against God’s Law ( for example if an elder tells me that God is a part Trinity I will not accept it).Nevertheless, I will not ever allow the imperfection of men to make me go away from God’s Organization. When the Lord wants ,He will clear the matters in His own time ( sorry to say that you never get attention to all that I’ve written before and you make me repeat the same things).
As for Adam and the Ransom I will answer later._
Hi Anonymous, David got and stayed far away from Saul and did indeed leave it to Jehovah. I stay away from the “self appointed faithful slave”. Jehovah is their judge. I would not insult a person but the word of God is a sharp sword. This thing called an organization is a huge money making real estate business now. Why didn’t the angel in Revelation address the organization instead of the individual congregations. Didn’t he know to take it through the GB? It is their conduct that has made them reprehensible while saying they are the only people on the face of the earth that God talks to and thru. Melchezedek King of Salem was worshiping Jah although Abram was around. Jesus the son of God said , leave them alone, if they are for me they can’t be against me. In Acts the Phophets came down to see what was happening with the new Christian congregation. With Ezekial there were other prophets and God’s people. John was decreasing and Jesus was increasing. There was Israel and Judah both being used by Jah at the same time. The hand of God can not be tied by 9 men. They can’t tell him he does not have others that he approves and uses. This organization (not the word of God) often repels people. They litigate more than some small countries. This org has many by lawyers, it does not depend on Holy Spirit to keep it together. The Catholic Church makes the same claim brother. I think we have a lot of problems as witnesses because we do not try to have a personal relationship with Jehovah. We have a herd mentality. Go to KH, turn in your time, study the watchtower, read it again at KH now repeat it to me again by raising your hand and reading. Your brain locks up after awhile and all sound just alike wihout an original thought coming from us. When all think alike it is because only one person is thinking. I used to be sort of like you believing in men rather than any type of personal relationship as I met with those of like mind. I never however accepted the explanation for the GB, one event where all came together at the place that was creating the problem, jerusalem brothers. God is not a God of disorder he is organized (not an organization) and so are his people. The Bible Students are organized by Holy Spirit but there is no big brother organization to force doctrine and conformity on them, to hurt even God’s people. Although the brothers know what is right they will sometimes call Bethel or write to people not involved to make a decision in harmony with what will keep them (org) financially clear. Being so well controlled I feel has caused Love to go out the door. The mighty dollar is what is loved and protected publishers are just collateral damage I alledged feel..
Some persons however like such control and being told exactly what works to do to please God, that’s alright if that’s what they like, but to say it is mandated by God is quite another thing. I write this in earnest and sincere love not augument. Many that are leaving have expressed some of these same points. Most religions do not accept Christ as the ONLY name by which one can get saved. Yet the GB recently said we must accept them before we can get to Jehovah. They can’t mediate between God and man, only Jesus can do that.
THERE IS NO FREEDOM WITHOUT THE LAW(the Bible)
THERE IS NO FREEDOM WITHOUT CHRIST
THERE IS NO FREEDOM OUTSIDE THE CHURCH OF CHRIST
At first I’d like to say that , yes I’ve watched the video and my heart was filled with sorrow and sadness, especially when I saw people who were once part of the holy remnant , now to give up their heavenly hope by letting their heart to be dissappointed by the true church, they once belonged to.Of course the Church is composed by imperfect men , that often do wrong before the LORD as every one .Should we dissapprove the christian congregation and the faithful remnant because of that? NEVER! The Church is always the Church, along with its faults and inperfection. We should submiss ourselves to those who take the lead among us whether they are right or wrong , just as faithful David did.If some of the elders or others should be removed , the Lord will accomplsh that in His own time (as He did with Raymond Franz). WE DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO JUDGE OUR BROTHERS and most of all those who are from the holy remnant. They are imperfect humans too. So, when we may disagree in a couple of things we should wait until the Lord will clear up the matter and not seperate ourslves from the main Body of the Church, the Bride of Christ
Now , as for the records of the Society, yes we do have the records of faithful men who lived during these troubled years , like brother H.Macmillan (Faith on the March) as well as others. Of course you would never put faith in them, because you let yourselves into the power of those dissappointed apostate “ directors “ who brought divisions among the House of the Lord.That is your fault. Of course I am putting more trust into the official answers of the WatchTower Society, which is the formal body for instruction within the Church and not to some who were dissappointed because they wanted more priviledges and power ( like PL JOHNSON) and who spread all these lies among the brethren. Be concerned that I have read and studied brother Russell’s Will ( I did not find a little thing that the new leadership of the Society did not follow in those days- Out of respect for Russell’s wish, the executive committee that served for a short time before Rutherford’s election as president sent Johnson to England, giving him certain papers that would facilitate entry into that country.). As for Rutherford’s election your apects are wrong : For the two months of November and December, 1916, a transitional administration of the Society was in the hands of an Executive Committee of three, Vice-President Ritchie, Secretary-Treasurer Van Amburgh and legal adviser Rutherford. In connection with a Watch Tower corporation meeting a convention was called to be held in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, January 6 and 7, 1917. The chief business of that meeting was election of a president and other officials to succeed the Russell administration. Six hundred attended the business meeting on Saturday, January 6, where approximately 150,000 votes(The corporation’s former voting arrangement was that of one vote for every ten-dollar donation to the Society. Voting method was amended in 1944. W 1944, p. 334), represented in person or by proxy, were unanimously cast for J. F. Rutherford for president and W. E. Van Amburgh for secretary-treasurer, and a majority for A. N. Pierson for vice-president. The next day, Sunday, the newly elected president, J. F. Rutherford, addressed 1,500 at the convention. Thus commenced a new administration for the Society, which Rutherford was to supervise for twenty-five years.
As for Rutherford’s humility,that is shown in many occassions. For example at the 1919 Cedar Point, Ohio, U.S.A., convention of the Bible Students , 50-year-old J. F. Rutherford, who was then overseeing the work, gladly volunteered as a bellhop, carrying luggage and escorting conventioners to their rooms.While Brother Rutherford was a man of strong convictions, known for speaking out forcefully and without compromise for what he believed to be the truth, he was also genuinely humble before God, often reflecting that in his prayers at morning worship in Bethel.
So, we have records that clearly show that bro Rutherfordd was legally elected- But that is not the point that does not concern me neither will I apolgize for what men did so loin ago – the question is ‘’ Whom the Lord wanted to be president?” – and not men. The history does prove to us that J.Rutherford was the right man in this time of period ( he was fearful and simultanously humble- perfect capable of organizing the Theocracy and fight for the truth against false religion) – as well as CTRussell in his time, N.O. knorr later , F.W.Franz ect. These were the Lord’s annointed. Of course some of them did mistakes(for example brother Russell was right when he said that the superior authorities were the earthly goverments and brother Rutherford was wrong when he interpreted Romans 13: 1 using the explanation that there were Jehovah God and Jesus Christ.As for the Pyramid I think that your statement that The New Testament supports it, I think ,without any intention of insulting you,that it is a joke)- That does not mean that Jehovah God did not favour them – they were among His devoted servants. And those servants I want to follow as I have already mentioned in my previous answers. You have to understand that the spiritual food is given by the holy remnant through the WatchTower Bible and Tract Society , from CT Russell’s time until now.
Those of you who compare the WatchTower with the Catholic Church, I would say that it is so wrong, even ridiculus- especially if you notice how these two are organised and what they teach. Of course in every christian denomination there are many similarities and truths to find, but they a re not the same thing. As for brother’s Russell views about organized religion I have already answered the question before (as I have done with the continuance of the early Bible Students and the today Jehovah’s Witnesses) and I’m not to stay further on this subject.As for the numbers of those who have left the truth- you do not prove something by saying ‘’strong’’ words to create impression ! YOUR STORY IS THEIR STORY, and I mean those who have left the first years from the other faithful Bible Students. As for them in foreign countries, you used the word ‘’almost everyone’’!!!!!!!! That is to prove that you had never known the truth. Look for example in Russia , France , Greece and other countries, in which almost everybody stayed loyal to the Society.I repaeat again that in my country almost everyone stayed loyal aftwer the death of our dear Pastor. Until now, our children are called ‘’russellists’’ in schools.
Now, about Jehovah’s Witnesses splinter groups I am well aware of them , more than you can think. As for the so called True Faith Jehovah’s Witnesses , I reject them also – they are clearely heretics. You said the Society is ‘’divided’’- that is a big lie. The Society never has been divided- those who are seperated did cut themselves from the Society .As for the TFJW, I would call them rutherfordites, I found out that they are divided also. Moreover , keep in mind that havivng some common beliefs (even singing the same kingdom hymns!) that does not make them part of the Jehovah’s Witnesses Congregation. We do reject them also for the same cause : they are sticked to the old light of Rutherford and do not follow the current brighter light. We should follow the Chariot of Jehovah, as seen by Ezekiel,according to its rhythm, and so we are not left behind from it(by accepting old light for example) , neither run forward from it.So, Jehovah’s Witnesses are indeed united , studying the same written material, singing the same hymns and believe the same doctrines( you did not answer about The Dawn’s “Oh the Blessedness!’’ and the divisions among you).
Concerning the brighter light, I explained the views of our Pastor during my previous answer(as stated in zw 4/1882 p7). As for the Ransom doctrine some things that they will help you filling the gaps. The Watchtower has always support the doctrine of gracious heavenly love of our Reedeemer, as well as the idea that Adam, as an unrepetent sinner will not be ressurected. This was taught from our Pastor also. F.Franz narrates one of his meetings with him: “…Then in 1916 he happened to be making a train connection in Cincinnati and had several hours’ layover. A sister and I, being told about it, hastened to the railroad station, where we found him along with his secretary. He (CTRussell) had brought his lunch along with him, and when lunchtime came, he shared it with us.Upon finishing lunch, he asked if anyone had a Bible question. I asked about the likelihood of Adam’s being resurrected in view of the fact that he was an unrepentant, willful sinner. With a twinkle in his eye, he replied: “Brother, you are asking a question and answering it at the same time. Now, just what was your question?”(W87 5/1 22-30)
As for The Finished Mystery, nothing in secret , we know that Pastor Russel did not write it, from the very beginnig (‘’It seemed pleasing tfi the Lord that Brothers C. J. Woodworthand George H. Fisher should prepare the SeventhVolume, under the direction of the WATCH TOWERBIBLE AND TRACT SOCIETY’’ p.6)Also the 7th volume was given for onother reason as it explains Pastor Russell long ago said, In substance, that the
Seventh Volume would not be for the development of theChurch; that the preceding rtx volumes of 9TUDD5S Of6Ptefaot
•THE SCRIPTURES contain the necessary spiritual mod
tor that purpose. Asked why, then. It would be written,
he replied, “It toitt probably be given to the Ohnron te •
time 0/ Oirett need, for her comfort and encouragement
page 7)
As for the Harvest work, who told you that the Watch Tower was teaching that begun during 1918/1919? (see Organization for the Harvest Work , R6023 p390, R6024 p 390-391).
And last, it is true that the earthly paradise is the Millenium during Christ’s reign. Nevertheless, Christ has given us freedom and put us into the spiritual paradise which is now called Theocracy. The WatchTower is the basic mean that our Lord gives us the spiritual food in its time- food that other religions cannot find( I’ve seen many members of the Free Bible Students in our conventions, who want to receive the Society’s books). We are not robots , we have our own opinions in many matters, but we do not want to cut our relationship with the annointed remnant and the Watchtower- BECAUSE WE KNOW THAT this IS THE TRUTH. As for calling Jehovah’s Organization ‘’our mother’’ is according to the words of S.Paul, when he said: ‘But the Jerusalem above is free, and she is our mother’(Gal.4: 26)
May you return back
There are only two things that I will answer in your post because they are the most important: (1) Your claim that Pastor Russell believed Adam would not be resurrected, and (2) Your claim that we should submit to our leaders whether they are right or wrong.
Point (1): You have clearly never read the fifth volume of Studies in the Scriptures entitled “The At-one-ment Between God and Man”. The ransom of Jesus Christ is only efficacious because it is a corresponding price for Adam. If Jesus did not die for Adam to provide his release from the grave then no other person will receive the benefit of the ransom. We know this because the Apostle Paul outlines the principle of how death spread to all of humanity because Adam’s sin passed to all. The only way that anybody can get life is for Adam to have been redeemed, a perfect man for a perfect man. I do not know the context of the conversation Fred Franz had with Pastor Russell, but I can tell you with 100% certainty that he would never have implied that Adam was never to be resurrected. Never would he have made such a claim. Why can I be so certain? Because he based his entire ministry upon his firm belief in substitutionary atonement. Jesus died for Adam, a corresponding price. Because Jesus died for Adam that means Adam has been saved and will receive a resurrection. Pastor Russell never once said otherwise, and to do so would be to reject the very essence of that ransom, the most important doctrine of the Bible. During the thousand year kingdom God will recover Adam and all of the human race from the effects of Adam’s sin and give them life again. Brother Russell stated this fact hundreds of times in his writings and sermons but I will give you one specific quote from the April 1st, 1911 Watch Tower page 109: “We understand that Adam, having been tried and found guilty and sentenced to death, and having gone down into death under that sentence, has done nothing to liquidate his obligations in any sense of the word; and that it will require the full satisfaction of a ransom-price to set him free and permit him to have another trial. In a general way, this is, of course, true of the entire human family. As Adam’s children, we are dealt with as a race, instead of as individuals except in the case of the Church and of the Jewish Nation under their Law. During the Millennium … the whole world, counted in as one, will be dealt with from that standpoint; and Christ, as the great Mediator, Prophet and King, will make satisfaction to Justice for Adam and all his children, dealing with them as one.” The death sentence passed to all humans because of Adam’s sin, not our own individual sins. Jesus died to save Adam from eternal death, and as a result we are all saved. Pastor Russell also said “Adam and his children were redeemed from the grave by Jesus dying for Adam’s sin.” There is no debate on this. If we reject that Adam is to be resurrected then we are rejecting the ransom of Jesus Christ, pure and simple.
Point (2): If we are to submit ourselves unquestioningly to our leaders then we are in a dangerous condition. Pastor Russell believed that the Bible teaches the congregational method, in other words, that the congregation is supposed to chose their own leaders, and that the elders do not have any authority outside of what the congregation gives to them. The elders are servants and are to listen to the congregation that they are serving. If an elder begins to dominate them this is an elder who does not have the spirit of Christ. When Paul encouraged us to obey those taking the lead he meant only of those who are taking the lead in service and who are laying down their very lives to serve God’s people. These are men of sound judgment, wise, and faithful. Yet, we do not yield our liberty. Christ gave us liberty and we are not to give it up otherwise we are showing him disrespect and dishonor. If you believe that we are to follow a leader right or wrong then you need to re-evaluate your principles as a human being. God gave you a mind, and you should use it and try to reason on the subject.
As for Rutherford’s actions in 1917 and 1918 they are very well documented. This is not my invention. If you are only going to accept the words of the Watchtower Society for the facts then you are only getting half of the story. I’m not going to go into this too much further because you have already decided that we are evil and that you and the Society are holy. Therefore anything I say is like talking to a brick wall. All I can do is give you the facts and hope that you will have an open mind to investigate them, and to have a humble heart to see if it is the truth or if it is error. You do not know it is truth or error until you look at all sides of the issue and have a balanced view. Listening only to the Watchtower will not give you a balanced view. A clean thing will not come out of that which is unclean.
The anointed remnant are not gods on earth. They are not sinless beings who must be followed without any question. The “christian congregation” is one body, but it is not one organization. Individual Christians all over the globe make up that “congregation” regardless of whether they are part of an organization or not. The Watchtower Society was not an organized religion until the days of Rutherford. Prior to that time Russell despised confederacy and religious organization. The Society in his day was a business convenience used to carry out a work, an independent work, outside of organizations. If the Society is part of a theocracy and membership is required for salvation then it means Russell as wrong to leave the churches because all churches teach this same doctrine. He decided this was a false doctrine and refused to create a “visible organization” because it was unscriptural. Our faithfulness or lack of faithfulness is not judged based upon whether or not we are part of an organization, but based upon our character and deeds as a person. Therefore, those in the video did not leave their heavenly calling, they merely left an organization that they saw had become corrupted and it is this reason that three quarters left by 1928. When Norman Woodworth left he said “I’ve just come out of a very filthy place.” The rampant use of alcohol, the endless gossip, and Rutherford’s harsh temper and dirty jokes were too much for many at the Bethel to take and many left. If God judges somebody as unfaithful for fleeing such debauchery then that isn’t a very loving God.
The modern-day Watchtower Society has for over 60 years taught that the harvest foretold by Jesus in Matthew 13 actually began in 1918. In the book “Babylon the Great Has Fallen – God’s Kingdom Rules” (published in 1963) on page 515 it says, “The conclusion of this system of things began in 1914, after the Gentile Times or “appointed times of the nations” ended. So the symbolic harvest on earth would begin after that under the newly crowned King’s supervision…The time of the separating of these Babylonish religionists, including the imitation Christians, would be from 1919 onward, the year when Babylon the Great fell and was condemned to eternal destruction by God’s tribunal.”
The October 15, 2000 Watchtower page 26 says, “Jesus’ arrival would mark the beginning of “the harvest” of wheatlike Christians. That would be a mark of the ‘conclusion of the system of things,’ which began in 1914. So it should not surprise us that there were stirrings of interest in Bible truth in the period leading up to the onset of the harvest.”
In “Revelation Its Grand Climax at Hand” on page 211 it says, “Although he is a King and a Judge, Jesus waits for word from Jehovah his God before beginning to reap. That word comes from “the temple sanctuary” by means of an angel. Immediately, Jesus obeys. First, from 1919 on, he has his angels complete the harvesting of the 144,000. Next, the harvest ingathering of the great crowd of other sheep takes place. History shows that between 1931 and 1935 a goodly number of these other sheep began to appear. In 1935 Jehovah opened to the understanding of the John class the real identity of the great crowd of Revelation 7:9-17. Thenceforth, much emphasis was placed on the ingathering of this crowd. By the year 1988, its number has far exceeded the three million mark, and it is still increasing. Surely, the one like a son of man has reaped a bountiful, joyous harvest during this time of the end.”
Anonymous,
You said, “We should submiss ourselves to those who take the lead among us whether they are right or wrong “.
Tell me, is this the same advise you give to members of other religions when you meet them at their door. We both know the answer to that don’t we. Why should they flee from all false teachings and religious leaders who are wrong but JW’s should not? As a former JW I am glad to recognize this position as but one of the many twisted points of reasonings used by JW leadership and their mislead rank and file. Strong words? Maybe. The truth, absolutely!
Dennis
Picardo371,
I agree with you and I would like to add that they also say even if you can prove the teaching wrong from the Bible you have to submit and teach it until the org. changes it. That to me meant going directly against God for men. I reasoned they were putting themselves in a Holy place where they should not be. Now the latest mags. are saying the mediation is not for the great crowd but only for those anointed few. The Bible clears all of that up if they would just stick to it. Amediator goes between to parties, in this case we can ask forgivenesss for sins and help from God thru our mediator. This is all of mankind. For if you arelooking for God you can ask him for help because of Christ. He has Ransomed all of Mankind, Adam and his offspring. One man lost all one man got it ALL back. It is not left to interpretation.
Hello Jeff !
are you a JW , or a Christian (ex-JW)?
I am a Christian (ex-TFJW) .
Glad to meet you!
I have participated to many TFJW Assembly untill August 2002
maybe we met there…
Now I am “seeking the Kingdom and the righteousness”
you may start read it here
https://www.friendsofjehovahswitnesses.com/welcome/comment-page-1/#comment-27
Greetings from Romania!
rus virgil
Pace Rus.
My wife is from Targu Mures. We visited mostly Bible Student congregations and brethren while in Romania (from Neptun [Black Sea] to Sighet. We visited the tfjw congregation in Targu Mures in 2002 and again in 2008.
I studied with the witnesses for about 1.5 years (over twenty years ago). I never was a baptized witness and dedicated myself to Christ and Christian living principles as a teenager.
Send me an email and perhaps we can connect with Skype sometime on the weekends (due to the time difference.)
“We visited mostly Bible Student congregations and brethren while in Romania (from Neptun [Black Sea] to Sighet.”
================
So, you have passed through Baia Mare .
I know the BS community here, but as I said, I am a “seeker of God’s Kingdom” , and, in order to enter in it I am now on The Holy Way (this is a prophecy)
Isaiah 35:
8. And a highway shall be there, and a way;
and it shall be called the Holy Way.
The unclean shall not pass over it, but it shall be for the redeemed;
the wayfaring men, yes, the simple ones and fools, shall not err in it and lose their way.
A.B.
I recommend also to you this Way because it is of God , and those “come out” from Babylon are walking on it !
———–
I/m sorry, I haven’t skype / but my mail is always here (it seems it doesn’t appear visible) survirgilio@hotmail.com
with love in Christ,
rus virgil
We were in Baia Mare for some days and Seini on another trip. We also went to Sighet and Iapa, Cluj, and Targu Mures, Cucerdia and several other cities I can not recall, as well as Moldova Romania and Moldova Moldova.
We have many friends amongst the Bible Students in Baia Mare. Ion Hosu just returned to Baia Mare from Chicago where my wife and I reside.
I’ll send you an email later in the week (my wife is preparing a visit to see her sister who lives in Arizona and her mother who came from Targu Mures this week.
We each need to follow the path that Jesus would have us to take. I believe I have been called for the heavenly calling, and that this is the only calling that one can take at this time.
I agree with you Rus that we need to stay true to the Scriptures and not to any organization or group. This was one of the lessons I had attempted to leave with the True Faith JWs of Romania each time that I was there.
No group is perfect, but fellowship with those who are like minded, and who attempt to stick close to the Scriptures is vital. Hebrews 10:23 states that we should not forsake the assembling of ourselves together.
I missed one thing before I clicked submit so…
http://www.kingdomherald.ro/
Be sure to click “English” in the upper right corner so that the English version of the site will appear for you.
Here is a link to the periodical they publish.
Here are some video clips so that you can see their friendly faces.
http://www.kingdomherald.ro/download/2/
Good afternoon anonymous,
I’m on a short lunch break at work and wanted to comment on one thing before taking time to write a more complete response later on.
Your comments make it appear that you are not aware that the Jehovahs Witness organization has fragmented tremendously over the past twenty years or so.
Since the fall of communism in the eastern block countries in 1989 the Jehovah’s witness’ sect has split into hundreds of different groups each with various points of views on differing topics.
On a couple of recent visits to Romania, my wife and I both visited with a group there called the True Faith Jehovahs Witnesses. They are quite friendly individuals who serve Yahweh and do not mind differing opinions or discussion. They even allowed me to speak to their congregation for a little while a couple of years ago.
Even though there was a language barrier, my wife who grew up in Romania was able to assist with any translation needs. The discussions were interesting and varied, and even though we had different opinions on several topics we were able to fellowship, and worship together and continue to be friendly as we each realized that we were all attempting to basis our reasoning on Scripture.
They even had a conference they had invited me to speak at (but unfortunately was unable to attend due to another conference), with thousands of Christian friends who were able to conference together despite their differences.
If you are interested, the main True Faith JW web site is:
http://the-true-jw.oltenia.ro/
Here is a Wikipedia entry regarding some of the JW splinter groups.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jehovah's_Witnesses_splinter_groups
As for your questions
1)All agree that bro Rutherford’s election was legal as many brothers of these years bring testimony to us.Jehovah’s servants had just passed through a trying time, but years of crisis were ahead of them. With the death of C. T. Russell on October 31, 1916, the Watch Tower Society lacked a president. Until its annual meeting on January 6, 1917, an executive committee managed the Society’s affairs. During that period, of course, the question of who would be the next president arose. One day Brother Van Amburgh asked A. H. Macmillan: “Brother, what do you think about it?” “There is only one person, whether you like it or not,” replied Macmillan. “There is only one man who can take charge of this work now, and that is Brother Rutherford.” Taking Macmillan’s hand Brother Van Amburgh said: “I’m with you.” J. F. Rutherford knew nothing about this and did no electioneering for votes. But at the Society’s annual meeting on January 6, 1917, he was nominated and elected as the president of the Watch Tower Society.
Humbly assuming his new responsibility, Brother Rutherford spoke briefly on that occasion, requesting the “united prayers, deep sympathy and unqualified cooperation” of his fellow believers. He assured them: “He who has thus far led us will continue to lead us. Let us have brave hearts, ready minds and willing hands, trusting implicitly always in the Lord, looking to Him for guidance. He will lead us to certain victory. Renewing our Covenant with Him today, united in the holy bonds of Christian love, may we go forth proclaiming to the world, ‘The Kingdom of Heaven is at hand.’”
In 1918 bro Rutherford was reelected also.E. D. Sexton, who had been appointed chairman of a nominating committee, spoke up, saying:
“I just arrived. My train was forty-eight hours late, having been snowbound. I have something to say and for my own comfort I better say it now. My dear brethren, I have come here, as the balance of you have, with certain ideas in mind—pro and con. . . . There is no legal obstacle in the way. If we desire to re-elect our brethren in the South to any office they can hold, I cannot see, or find from any [legal] advice I have received, how this will, in any shape or form, interfere with the aspect of their case before the Federal Court or before the public.
“I believe that the greatest compliment we can pay to our dear brother Rutherford would be to re-elect him as president of the W[atch] T[ower] B[ible] & T[ract] Society. I do not think there is any question in the mind of the public as to where we stand on the proposition. If our brethren in any way technically violated a law they did not understand, we know their motives are good. And before Almighty [God] they have neither violated any law of God or of man. We could manifest the greatest confidence if we re-elected Brother Rutherford as president of the Association.
“I am not a lawyer, but when it comes to the legality of the situation I know something about the law of the loyal. Loyalty is what God demands. I cannot imagine any greater confidence we could manifest than to have an election AND RE-ELECT BROTHER RUTHERFORD AS PRESIDENT.”
Well, Brother Sexton evidently expressed the sentiments of most of those in attendance. There were nominations; a vote was taken; and J. F. Rutherford was elected president, C. A. Wise vice president, and W. E. Van Amburgh secretary-treasurer.
– you can check all these things in the appropriate records of the Society.
2)When brother Russell spoke about ”organized religions” he had in mind the apostate religions of Christendom, not the True Christian Congregation. Watch Tower was the spiritual food in the appropriate time and the main key to divine knowledge-also accompanied with other books and literature. The first Christians were totally organized from the apostles and the elders of Jerusalem, and that was also true for our brothers in bro Russell’s time- there were pilgrims and spokesmen of the Society who were acting as overseers. For example when Freytag, the overseer of bible house in Switzerland Freytag, who translated the Society’s publications into French, began taking liberties, inserting his own ideas into the Watch Tower, Brother Weber noticed these changes and advised Brooklyn. Brother Russell, who had just recently appointed Freytag as manager of the Geneva office, wrote Weber: “If he [Freytag] is an evil servant, this will manifest itself.” Freytag was removed later just as bro Russell wanted( like McPhail and others also) This, and many other occasions show to us that Watch Tower’s officials CERTAINLY supervised the unity and the peace through the ”classes” of the Lord’s people.They were in harmony with Paul’s words :Now I exhort YOU, brothers, through the name of our Lord Jesus Christ that YOU should all speak in agreement, and that there should not be divisions among YOU, but that YOU may be fitly united in the same mind and in the same line of thought. (1 Cor.1:10)YOU ARE TOTALLY WRONG when you say that bro Russell did not belong to God’s organization. HE ORGANIZED the Harvest Work and the true followers in Christ to prepare for the Bridegroom – bro Rutherford continiued this work also( When a President of America changes that does not mean that the whole country changes!!!!It’s still the same even though some changes take place)
3)Brother Russell would certainly approve the future work of the Society he founded. Bro Rutherford did not change the major doctrinal truths, Russell founded but he , under the Lord’s spirit, promoted changes in the understanding of the deeper spiritual things.”Errors and superstitions die hard” as our beloved brother Russell said._ THere should be changes that were according to the brighter light of this time ( stop celebrating pagan holidays for example. If only our beloved Pastor was still alive , he CERTAINLY would have found these truths by himself.For example, as for Christmas he too knew that it was not the day of Jesus’ birth ect)It was necessary for all Bible Students to be organized in order to gather the Lord’s jewels, the great preaching work ect.But many did not want to collaborate with the Lord’s will through His faithful ones.All humans are imperfect before the Lord ,and Russell and Rutherford were also .They did mistakes but they remain faithful to Jehovah God and His Organization.They did not left , as you have done. Also, it was not Bro Rutherford but the apostate directors who caused divisions,as many of our old faithful brothers narrate( such as paul Johnshon, who pretend to accept the brighter light in order to divide the congregations of the Lord.There are many letters to Bethel which prove that.)Bro Rutherford and his associates tried to keep the unity and peace.Yes, Brother Russell would be very sad to see many to go away from the Truth.And also do not believe the fault number of 75% ”who left”.as the Memorial records show to us- the number was much lower and also keep in mind that the most of whom who has left was from AMERICA and not the Bible Students from the other countries( in my country for example almost every one of us , Jehovah’s Witnesses , have relatives, fathers and grandfathers who received the Truth from Brother Russell and we continue until now in His service)
4)You have not the unity you want. Many of you have broke into smaller splinter groups. After the Dawn’s article”oh the Blessedness” many of you decided not to have fellowaship with the Dawnists anymore!!!!And as I mentioned above it was not bro Rutherford who caused the division(see how Jehovah’s Witnesses are united in all over the world in one mind and thought- it is certainly the spirit of the LORD among us)YOU HAVE CAUSED THE DIVISION in the House of the Lord and took many of His sheep with you.
5)We do not worship the Watchtower Organization. It’s a big difference between the words ”worship” and the word ”loyalty”.For example, when Hitler’s Gestapo printed fake Watchtowers, which promote the idea of joining the war, NONE of our brothers collaborated with the SS.We are loyal to those who compose the REMNANT OF CHRIST – The Faithful and Discreet Slave (Mat 24:45),the slave in which CTRussell was a part of. YOU DARED to call it ”Babylon”, when you departed. It’s not Babylon- It’s the New Jerusalem._
WE are following the Scriptures in every word and deed- when something is wrong we remove it , according to the Holy Bible and do not follow traditions of men.If I were alive during the period that bro Russell was President of the Society I would be still loyal as I am now.I worship only Jehovah God and Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior._You have idolized this man by staying to the old light of the Truth(e.g Where does the Bible teaches exactly the theory about the Pyramid of Giza? Do you still hold that?Or about celebrating pagan holidays, such as ”Christmas”for example)Brother Russell was a man of light and CERTAINLY would have accepted the changes(In 1882, C. T. Russell wrote: “The Bible is our only standard, and its teachings our only creed, and recognizing the progressive character of the unfolding of Scriptural truths, we are ready and prepared to add to or modify our creed (faith—belief) as we get increase of light from our Standard.”—“Watch Tower,” April 1882, p. 7).
These changes do not alter God’s Organization. Christ still uses His channel to provide the spiritual Truth in the Household of faith, in which we STILL belong.MAY YOU RETURN TO THE MOTHER CHRISTIAN CONGREGATION SOON AND FIND GRACE AND MERCY BY JEHOVAH GOD AND OUR LORD JESUS
P.S As for Isaiah chapt 2 I believe that we have been in Jehovah’s Mountain for over 100 years, staying faithful to Him and His annointed ones.As for you I think you can read 1 Kings 12:25-33 and Deut 12:4-7
Dear Friend, Did you even watch the video you are posting in response to?
In point #1, you said, “All agree that bro Rutherford’s election was legal…” Can you direct us all to an official website of today’s Watchtower Society where they provide official documentation proving that Rutherford legally took over the Watchtower. Do we have to take their word for it? How about a pdf copy of Russell’s original signed will? How about pdf copies of the Watchtower’s corporate rules and bylaws in the days of Pastor Russell. Check out these copies on Pastor-Russell.com and the HeraldMag.org Bible Student websites: Wouldn’t that type of documentation supposedly help to clear things up and support your contention that Rutherford’s election was according to the rules?
Bro. Jim Parkinson offers the following information: I can contribute that according to the published WT Annual Meeting reports of 1917 and 1918, with about 163,300 shares voting in the latter election (permitted to vote for 7 directors each), J.F. Rutherford got 194,106 votes – about 30,000 more votes than the number of shares voting. (About 150,000 shares had been voted in the 1917 elections.)
Bro. Russell’s will authorized five sisters to vote his shares after his death. At the convention and annual meeting of 1917, J.F. Rutherford insisted that several by-laws had to be passed – without being read to those voting – to conduct the Society’s business. Among them, that votes should be counted only for those nominated. Bro. MacMillan was made chairman of the business meeting and permitted only J.F. Rutherford to be nominated (and multiply seconded), and then allowed another brother to request the rules of balloting be suspended in order to have J.F. Rutherford proclaimed the unanimous choice for president. It then appears J.F. Rutherford, who had previously refused to let the five sisters vote Bro. Russell’s shares, voted them himself in order to oust Vice President A.I. Ritchie.
Shall a clean thing come out of an unclean? (Cf. Haggai 2:10-13)
You’ve certainly put a lot into your response, Anonymous, but as much as it pains me to say, your facts are filled with errors and half-truths. Much of what you’ve written comes directly from the Proclaimers book which has left out a lot of important history. Like the old saying goes “history is his story”. So, I’m going to add some important facts to the story so that we can get at the truth of things, because we want to be students of truth. However, I also realize that you are seeking to support an organization that you believe in and that you will probably not be swayed by my points of truth. What I would like you to do however is to read the facts for yourself. If your organization is of truth then you have nothing to fear because truth will always win over error:
1) No, it is not true that everyone believes Rutherford’s election was legal. In fact it was deemed illegal by at least three well respected lawyers in 1917 and 1918. Vice President A.I. Ritchie was the individual who was to be the chairman of the meeting where the next President was elected. When he went to take his seat A.H. MacMillan put his hand across the chair and said “We’re saving that for the Judge,” (meaning Judge Rutherford). As soon as Rutherford had heard that Pastor Russell had died he immediately took control of the Society’s affairs, doing so without any authority. Russell appointed the Board of Directors to take control especially in cases such as these where the “leader” had died. Rutherford had no legal or moral rights to take control of anything without the unanimous consent of the Board. That’s true in any organization. If a member of a Board, or even a lawyer working for an organization decides to “take over” and push everyone else aside they’d be expelled or even arrested, and this would have happened to Rutherford if others had decided to take the matter to court. The only reason was because the Bible says that we do not take our brother to court. These brothers who disagreed with Rutherford did not take it to court. That is proof that they were not seeking to disrupt the Society because they could have done so, but they didn’t. The facts regarding the election are very well known by researchers, unfortunately the more embarrassing facts have been left out of the Society’s history books. First of all, Rutherford rejected all proxy votes, again without legal or moral authority. Those proxy votes contained very few for Rutherford. He had surrounded himself with individuals who were intent on electing him and worked hard to convince those who didn’t agree to change their vote. That’s called “electioneering” and is highly unethical. After he was elected he began to do other things that he had no authority to do, including taking control of the Society’s treasury and forbidding anyone from seeing the records, and telling everyone at the Bethel that they had to sign a notice giving their approval of his actions or else they’d be expelled. (The exact wording of the statement was: “We the undersigned give the President a blanket vote of confidence.”) He immediately set out to publish and print the “seventh volume” called “The Finished Mystery”. He did this not only without the approval of the Board, but even without their knowledge. Then, he widely advertised it as the “posthumous work of Pastor Russell” which was a lie. In the book American State Trials in the foreward it says “After [Russell’s] death and after we were in the war they issued a seventh volume of this series, entitled “The Finished Mystery,” which, under the guise of being a posthumous work of Pastor Russell, included an attack on the war and an attack on patriotism, which were not written by Pastor Russell and could not have possibly been written by him.” The first edition also contained in the frontispiece an image of a coin. This was because Rutherford believed that he was fulfilling a prophecy in Matthew 20 called “the parable of the penny” (KJV). He believed that the seventh volume was this penny and did anything and everything he could to get it published. But again, if it was truthful he would not have used deceit to publish it, and he would not have made the claim that it was a posthumous work and final legacy of Pastor Russell. One of the big differences between Pastor Russell and Judge Rutherford is that even those who disagreed with Russell always said he was a kind man, however those who disagreed with Rutherford did not even want to be around him. He had a very strong temper and was very determined to get what he wanted no matter what the cost or consequences. He often succeeded. That is the opposite of “humility” you say he had. The facts of how Rutherford obtained the presidency have been studied carefully by some and the Society has not told the whole story. To cover up truth or facts which are embarrassing is not the actions of those claiming to speak for God himself.
2) Charles Taze Russell “was” the Watch Tower Society. He owned it, ran it, organized it, chartered it, funded it and administered its activities. It belonged to him and he had a right to do with it as he saw fit and as he believed that God had guided him to so do. The sending out of pilgrims and colporteurs was part of a preaching effort that he was supervising. The colporteurs were all volunteers. They made their living off of the books they sold but they also received a small allowance from the Society. The pilgrim
speakers who were selected by Pastor Russell because of their spiritual maturity and soundness of mind would travel from place to place spreading the message to various congregations as well as to the public. Preaching from door to door was not a requirement. It was a good thing, an admirable thing, and a sacrificial act, but it wasn’t required for salvation. The Watchtower Society for at least 60 years has been teaching that the “harvest work” began in 1918/1919. But was Russell in charge of “God’s organization”? Was he in charge of “the Theocracy”? No. Russell himself said the following in the Watch Tower of Dec 1, 1894, “It is plain that the forming of a visible organization of such gathered out ones would be out of harmony with the spirit of the divine plan; and if done would seem to indicate on the part of the church a desire to conform to the now popular idea of organization or confederacy.”
3) Brother Russell would have been heartbroken to see what had happened to the Society. It had started out as an association of Christians seeking to find truth outside of organized religion but after his death it turned into a centralized entity claiming to be God’s only mouthpiece on earth. As for doctrinal changes, there were many serious changes to very important truths, some of them including the ransom of Jesus Christ, the restitution of mankind and the earth, the role of the nation of Israel as God’s instrument in the kingdom, the proper applications of Bible prophecy, the chronology of the Bible, the congregations choosing their own leaders, the importance of the development of Christian character, the interpretation of the “great crowd”, and on and on and on. As truth becomes brighter it does not change – it merely becomes deeper. For example, when you study the ransom of Christ and come to the conclusion that the corresponding price of Jesus death was to ransom Adam/Eve and by that deliver all humans from the grave a greater light would show you extra nuances and greater clues of its beauty. It would not reject everything you had taught, throw everything out, and start with a new restrictive view that only a few who accept the Watchtower are to be saved. Russell split from Nelson Barbour in 1878 over the issue of the ransom. Russell built the Watch Tower magazine and his entire ministry upon the power and value of the ransom. By the mid-1920s Rutherford had completely rejected it and claimed that the ransom only applies to those who associate with “God’s organization.” As for the number of those who left, it is well established. Even Rutherford himself stated in the November 15, 1930 Watchtower that the number who left was larger than those who stayed. The records of the Memorial show a drastic drop after 1925. Researchers have investigated it thoroughly.
It is not our invention. Yes, there were some who stayed with the Society for decades. But most did not. When you say that most who left were in America that is only partly true, because you see that most Bible Students were in America to begin with. But almost everyone in Australia, England, Scotland, Italy and Poland broke away from the Society when they saw that beautiful truths were being discarded and new hateful ones put in their place. The Society no longer taught that God’s love will apply the ransom for the benefit of all humanity regardless of whether they accept the truth in our day. The Society today claims they are like the ark of Noah and that survival was only in that ark and everyone outside of it would be destroyed forever. Pastor Russell would be appalled by such teachings because every other religion already teaches this. He rejected it as error. He would not have changed his mind and suddenly accepted what everyone else was teaching.
4) There have been separations among God’s people since the time of Abraham. Sometimes the separations were wrong, sometimes they were holy. God expects us to make a stand for truth, and to support what is holy and righteous. The unity of Jehovah’s Witnesses is a myth. In the past three decades the Society has splintered greatly, but the Society does not like to admit it to their followers and tries to keep it quiet. But honestly, the claim of unity is no different from the unity of the Roman Catholic Church. The numbers are large, they are all over the world, and most of them agree with the same doctrines. However, the unity of both Jehovah’s Witnesses and Roman Catholics is mostly based upon fear, not love. They are taught that salvation exists only with them, and to reject anything the Society teaches is equal to rejecting God himself. Nobody is allowed to have a different opinion or to see a matter a different way. In Pastor Russell’s day there was great unity, but everyone had the freedom disagree with him or to see something a different way. The entire Protestant movement was based upon the freedom to study and interpret the Bible as a person saw fit, as an individual, without the authority or pressure from some organized body forcing you what to believe and threatening you with the judgment of God for dissenting. Does truth go back and forth? Does it accept as truth one thing, then reject it, then years later accept it again? What is even worse is that each time those who disagreed were punished. That is mind control and is not how God wants us to be.
5) God’s Kingdom is not an earthly organization. God’s kingdom is the rule over mankind and the earth during the 1000 year millennium. The first stage of the kingdom is to tear down the current global power structure and upon its ruins shall God establish his kingdom. The purpose of the kingdom is to give all mankind the chance to learn about God and to prove faithful to it. That judgment is future, it is not a judgment of today. There is no judgment upon the world today, but only upon the anointed remnant are God judging. Russell would not have approved of rejecting the Great Pyramid because the Christian scriptures are filled with the pyramid symbol. Isaiah 19 prophesied a clear understanding of the Pyramid in the last days. Russell knew that Christmas was of pagan origin. He wasn’t stupid. He said that even though it is not the true date for the birth of Jesus we can still celebrate it and rejoice with those who recognize Jesus as the savior of mankind. If a person does not wish to celebrate it that is their choice. But choice is the key. Nobody is forced, and nobody is judged to eternal death if they decide to celebrate.
The changes made under Rutherford were monumental. If you want to see a list of changes go to the Wikipedia page on Joseph Rutherford and see the list that I created on the administrative and doctrinal changes that Rutherford put in place, which he claimed were all fulfillment of Bible prophecy. I have a right to stand up for what I believe in and I have a right to say if it is of God or not. Do you have that right? Do you have the right to reject doctrines from Brooklyn without fear of judgment? God wishes us to understand truth, but he wants us also to have freedom of thought otherwise we are merely robots doing as we are commanded with no will of our own.
What you have done by calling the Society the “mother” is the same as what the Roman Catholic Church calls themselves. The comparisons between the Society and the Catholic Church are amazing. Both of you believe salvation exists only in you. Both say that God speaks only through you. Both claim that the Bible and its true interpretation was given only to you. Both say that if you reject the doctrine you will receive God’s punishment. Both claim that their leaders are part of a chain that goes back to the days of the Apostles. I prefer to stay clear of any organized religion because organized religion has caused more wars, death, and fear than any other groups in mankind’s history. Organized religion has also taken away freedom, created fear, and substituted the truth of God’s word with traditions and imagination. God calls us to freedom and to liberty, not to bondage. The Watchtower Society has turned away from the light they once had and turned from the true meaning of the ransom and rejected its application to Adam, and this is the most serious of all changes that Rutherford put into place.
You are heretics! You have seperated from us and from the Society, which our most beloved brother , Pastor Russell founded. Our brother in Christ, J.F Rutherford(LEGALLY elected as president) tried to keep clean the christian congregation from evil slaves like you, who wanted power in order to control the Society. We the Jehovah’s Witnesses are the true followers of the annointed remnant, including Pastor Russell, J.F Rutherford, N Knorr and F.Franz ect. The early Bible Students are our brothers.
All of you who have left God’s Organization, which Brother Russell reestablished, you have lost your crown and your divine hope. You do not appreciate either Brother Russell, who was a man of the brighter light(see The Divine Plan of the Ages chapter 1)
If brother Russell was still alive today, WOULD CERTAINLY APPROVE THE SOCIETY HE FORMED- HE WAS A PART OF IT ALL OF HIS LIFE – FAITHFUL ,LOYAL TO GOD’S CHANNEL ON EARTH- you are not.Your numbers are lower and lower because you have left the love you have at first.Also Brother Russell would have certainly accepted the new light, as one of God’s annointed
– WE, JEHOVAH’S WITNESSES, ARE THE INTERNATIONAL BIBLE STUDENTS
– WE, JEHOVAH’S WITNESSES, CONTINUE THE WORK BROTHER RUSSELL DID
– WE ,JEHOVAH’S WITNESSES, ARE FAITHFULL TO GOD’S ORGANIZATION AND HIS FAITHFUL
REMNANT
You formed many splinter sects and you idolized a man. WE ARE CHRIST’S FOLLOWERS AND NOT OF A MAN, BUT WE BELIEVE STRONGLY THAT JEHOVAH USED men like brother Russell and blessed brother Rutherford.
To you , who have left God’s Church-THE EVIL SLAVE:
“Therefore, continue mindful of how you have received and how you heard, and go on keeping [it], and repent. Certainly unless you wake up, I shall come as a thief, and you will not know at all at what hour I shall come upon you.”
(REVELATION 3:3)
Friend – If we are wrong, we would certainly like to know it and correct our error. I have some questions for you.
1) You say that J.F. Rutherford was “legally elected as president.” Are you claiming that the election was in agreement with the instructions in Russell’s Will? How was it the J.F. Rutherford voted Russell’s shares that had been given to three sisters in his will? How was it that 30,000 more shares were voted than actually existed?
2) You say, “All of you who have left God’s Organization, which Brother Russell reestablished, you have lost your crown and your divine hope.” I am confused by your statement. How can we have left the organization when there was no organization in Pastor Russell’s day? The Watchtower was simply a publishing house and lecture service. Pastor Russell was against organized religion (see volume 6, cha 5, of studies in the scriptures).
3) You say that “If brother Russell was still alive today, WOULD CERTAINLY APPROVE THE SOCIETY HE FORMED.” J.F. Rutherford formalized the organization of the Jehovah’s Witnesses in 1931 after 75% of the original Bible Students had left or been thrown out. Do you think Russell would have approved of that or the doctrinal changes Rutherford made that Russell fought against all his life?
4) You say that we “formed many splinter sects.” Bible Students today are pretty united, not splintered. It is a testimony to Jehovah’s spirit in us that after the disarray and division that Rutherford had directly caused, that over time we were able to come back together, being drawn by the spirit of love and the Truth.
5) You say we “idolized a man.” We believe that the scriptures have greater authority than Pastor Russell’s teachings and we will follow the scriptures first, then consider Pastor Russell’s opinion second. Can you say the same about the Watchtower Organization as we say about Pastor Russell? By your own words, are you then admitting worshiping an organization in place of Jesus?
Anonimous, you are speaking so similar to some in romania , but I realized you are not from here .
All what I can do for you is to invite you to read with all your attention Isaiah chapter 2 , the entire chapter / it is for you !
17. The arrogance of man will be brought low
and human pride humbled;
the LORD/JEHOVAH alone will be exalted in that day,
18. and the idols will totally disappear.
rus virgil
are there any international bible students still around.i have been made to see what rutherford did when he took over the the bible students. i no longer follow the tenets of that so called way of worshiping because it is not in line with the truth of God’s word. however, i am all alone without the support of my spouse who is still under thier spell.
Cj, Hello and welcome.
Yes this is the site.We are at a 3 day convention in Addison, Il now. We are the original Bible Students. What is your state? Go to contact and tell us what city and adminstration will get you in touch with the Bible Student in your area. This site tries to address issues for former or still Jehovah Witnesses. As the questions come in the Brothers try to post an article or address the issues from a Biblical standpoint not according to what the governing body of witnesses teaches. Enjoy the articles and feel free to ask questions. Sincerely, Jacqueline