CLICK HERE TO LISTEN TO THE RECORDING OF THE CONFERENCE CALL.
On Saturday evening, June 29, Bible Student Elder, David Stein will lead a round table discussion on this topic. Joining him will be other Bible Student Elders Ric Cunningham and Len Griehs. Both David and Ric have first hand experience being present in JW elder judicial proceedings.
The topic is “The JW Elder’s Policies for Discipline & Disfellowship Compared to the Bible.” These elders will compare the JW Elder methods of judicial discipline in the congregation (see book below) with:
1) the Bible view
2) the views of Brother Russell’s and the early Bible Students
3) the view of Bible Students today.
Find the JW Elders Book – “Shepherd the Flock of God” explains Judicial Committee and Disfellowship Procedures here: https://www.beyondwatchtower.com/2012/09/12/jw-elders-book-shepherd-the-flock-of-god-explains-judicial-committee-and-disfellowship-procedures/
The JW 2013 District Summer Conventions are in swing and getting off to a bang. The link below is to some convention talks about apostates and Jesus sword of Truth dividing the family, etc.:
1) Human Apostates 2) Satan and Apostates 3) Truth Brings a Sword
Click here for contrasting point of view on Apostates today
The JW Organization is going on the offensive against influences that might draw people away from their organization. The Internet is creating all sorts of problems with getting some JW members to think about and question what they have been taught. Sure, they teach many true doctrines (i.e. earthly kingdom, no hell or trinity, etc.) However are false concepts mixed in as well? Is it okay to open your mind and examine the Bible to make that decision for yourself?
The Governing Body is tightening its grip on its members. Will more aggressive action to silence supposed apostates be effective or have the opposite effect?
Notice the following related question on “Yahoo Answers.” Is it okay for Jehovah’s Witnesses to shun family members who have left the organization because they disagree? Click here to follow the discussion. This conversation will give you a sense of the diverse controversy on this topic and that strong emotions.
Here is another “Yahoo Answers.” question. Should I question what I am taught as a Jehovah’s Witness to determine which doctrines agree with the Bible or should I accept the Organization’s teachings without question? Click here to follow the discussion.
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TELEPHONE CONFERENCE CALL INSTRUCTIONS:
Conference Call Phone #: (267) 507-0240 .
After connecting dial: 991337
Date: June 29, 2013
Time: 7:00 pm Eastern, 6:00 pm Central and 4:00 pm West Coast
How to participate:
4 * – Self-Mute Line (toggle)
5 * – Raise Hand for Q&A
One more point, I do have more association with my son than what the organization approves of and plan on expanding that as far as I can without creating family problems with my wife.
Ted thank you for commenting. You are correct, I have never heard of anyone getting DF for not going in field service.
I am so glad you associate with your son and his family. You are setting a fine Patriarchal example.
I always advocate moving slow. May I suggest you don’t get DF if possible, because it does something mentally to most that have felt the need to leave the organization this way or wrote a letter. But you have a handle on this and can make the right decision for the well being of your family. I have over 100 close family still in including adult son’s and family. One son chooses not to have much to do with me although he can’t give a real reason except apostasy. But I love him intensely an am glad he is a moral and upright man with a wife. My heart is okay because they chose not to have children so God blessed me in this respect. No grandbabies.
The other 2 would never let some men turn them against their mother.
You are welcome to comment and update where we have it a little wrong. Later today I will read thru the article and advise Br. Peter where there might be error. Br. Peter has to go by what x or current witnesses say because he has always been a Bible student and is admin and an elder. So we will check and correct. Again welcome.
I have just listened to this recording and I just want to point out one misunderstanding. JW’s are not disfellowshiped for not going out in service or being inactive. It is only if you actually speak against the door to door work and minimize it’s importance, trying to influence others in this regard that you are considered apostate. Also, the witness do other forms of witnessing besides door to door. They now use videos from there website, letter writing and street witnessing. The primary focus is on the door to door.
The rest of this recording I whole heartily agree with.
I have a son who was disfellowshiped for smoking. That was 20 years ago. He no longer smokes, he has a family and a good job yet since I am still in the organization at this point, I cannot associate with him. This is not scriptural nor kind. The only reason I am reluctant to leave the organization at this point is that I have two other grand children and a wife who suffers some mental illness. I have to exercise the spirit of a sound mind and take things slowly. Much of what I learn at the Kingdom Hall is beneficial and I try to blot out the unscriptural parts. I now consider myself a Bible Student and a witness for Jesus and Jehovah in the scriptural sense, not the organizational sense. I was baptized to serve Jehovah and Jesus, not the organization,
My interest is about how the bible students have been treated by jws when changes happened particulary between 1927_1942.
And I do not know what happened were bible students just seperate from jw or was a severing judicial or otherwise.
Vincent – You can find relevant information at these links: http://www.heraldmag.org/2006_history/06history_8.htm
https://www.friendsofjehovahswitnesses.com/category/jehovahs-witnesses/
peter k : I agree with you 100%
Jacqueline,re- Sep 5 I apologize if i hurt anyone this was not intentionally,i know we are all sinners and fall short of the glory of God.
Please note I find it very difficult to except,that there is problems with J W,GB . in 36 yrs i have never known anyone to be disfellowshiped. That is why i stated earlier on that i felt i was not good enough to be baptized.
d.
Doug – Sr. Jacqueline is a bit tied up. She will answer when she can. In the meantime, I want to share with you one of my concerns about the authority of the Governing Body. When you and I try to alk with other Christians, the biggest problem I find (maybe you do to) is that they have been indoctrinated by an authority and the scriptures I quote really won’t have much impact. For examples, Catholics take the pope and church as their authority. Mormon’s take their president (prophet of God) as their authority. Other protestants trust their church, pastor and/or priest as authorities. So when I quote a scripture, it really doesn’t matter much. In their mind, their authority can answer and explain the scripture even if they cannot.
So the difficulty I have with the Governing Body is that it is an authority over and above the Bible. For the most part, when JWs come to my door, it won’t matter what scriptures I quote to prove Jesus is a Ransom for ALL or that the natural Jew is being restored to Israel by Jehovah. The Governing Body and organization do not believe it that way, so it cannot be true. So for the most part, when I talk to a JW, they are not visiting me to have and even exchange of scriptures and ideas. They are there to teach me. If I won’t go along, than I have a rebellious spirit and so they will move on to the next house.
Doug – do you agree this is a problem? Or how would you explain this in a light more favorable to the JW organization?
Peter
Just listened to this conference and was reviewing the comments and your caught my attention. What you said is very true here and I have been engaging for 20 yrs in the House to House ministry. My son a number of times has taken other peoples literature as well as myself or I just discussed it at the door with individuals. My son though stated to me “how can we expect them to listen or read ours if we are not allowed to consider theirs? We though have always kept that between us as a family careful not to say that to others. So I have made it a practice to consider and reason as the Boreans at Acts 17:11 or as directed by John at 1John 4:1 testing the spirit or expression! But this is unique to me and my family most Witnesses would never consider what you have to say.
Peter- I have a question with regard to discipline in the ecclesia. Like 1 Cor 6 when there is serious sin and the individual is disciplined to what extent do you withdraw association or communication?
Doug, that’s so nice to have attended where none were DF. When I said we are all sinners. I was referring to the elders not understanding sin and forgiveness. To have to confess to them for forgiveness and hope for private reproof, or reading out from the platform instead of DF is not supported by scripture. The Caholic church has confession. We are lead to believe that you can’t work to get control of a sin ourselves. Stop, confess our sins to Jehovah and ask for forgiveness on Basis of Jesus covering our sins. Often you are punished by men for your sin.
One case in our Cong involved a young 25yr old female, who got baptized with her sisters at or about 13. Her mom had 6 children and husband left her when she became a witness. Her daughter later left at about 18 and returnead one day and told all the friends she was back and wanted to get back in “God’s organization”. All that knew her were so happy. She was DF, sisters cried visibly, a pioneer asked why? She was distraught. The elder replied we need to let these sisters know they can’t leave do what they want then come back without penalty. We said brothers do it all the time and get themselves together without being DF on return. He said she has a three year old it is obvious what she was doing. We need to send a message. We cried, the congregation was hurt. She however sat quietly for a year to prove herself to these men and another committee reinstated her. This goes on all the time. Organizations do have to have control to achieve it’s goals, but Christ forgiveness is about love and forgiveness like the prodigal son.
What brought you to the site? May we heard your experience if you care to share. We want to help those hurt by these organization rules to find Christ as the key to forgiveness and God. The Samaritan woman at the well didn’t have to confess to men. She came to the well before others because they knew her lifestyle, but Jesus read her heart and bought her to him. Elders should comfort and help those caught up in sin when they come for help not punish them. These are the type of cases, not where a person is out there and trying to subvert the congregation. Elders should stand against such actions but not hate the brother and unrepentant practicers of wrong doing can be helped and also be treated as a tax collector. Not shunned by family not speaking to them.
PS. Forgive me for lack of written scripture. Been up all night, using a droid. I welcomed a new granddaughter at 7am this morning. And have 3 siblings tugging at me. A long drive and a long night to get here. Take Care Doug
1 Corr5:11 but i wrote to you not to associate intimately :if anyone is called a brother and is either a fornicator , or a covetous one ,or a idolator or a idolator ,or a reviler,or a drunkard ,or a plunderer with such one not to eat ,
should we disregard this scripture ??
d
Hi Doug, even as a decent human you should watch your association. Quite a few persons are DF’d because they question a doctrine scripturally. Some choose not to speak out and just leave. Some are victims of pedophilia or some sexual abuse and if they get justice the hunt can go out to DF that person or make their life miserable. I am just speaking from a personal account here in my family and my own personal experience. It is true I was not DF only because my elders stood against New York and refused to brand me an apostate for helping victims by not burning their records. But even sins should be forgiven by us as the cardinal sins are no worse than gossip, trying to discredit pedophile victims by the society, disrupting family relationships between older mothers and sons if they are in positions and want to keep it. So those are sins also and do more harm in some respects. Forgiveness and not punishment for say, a couple, that marries but confesses they fornicated once before. Some elders understand and just counsel them but most will read out from the platform or excomminicate them. This destroys a new family with their in laws. What should have been a good time of healing and families merging starts out with having to shun your new daughter in law or son. I have actually been told to lie by CO and DO in pedophilia cases. That is as bad as adultery and fornications. Who DF the Governingbody for issues likje this?
I hope you understand that these are just some of the things or circumstances that we are discussing. He who hath no sin is indeed blessed.