Quoting form author Kenneth Rawson, in his book, Pastor Russell the Founder of the Bible Students, not the Jehovah’s Witnesses (2nd Edition), we read the following:
With all the Internet exchange of information, Jehovah’s Witnesses are beginning to realize that the image of Judge Rutherford is a liability and they are out to minimize his stature and fictionalize a relationship between Pastor Russell and Jehovah’s Witnesses that never existed.
Additionally, there are thousands of Jehovah’s Witnesses and ex-Jehovah’s Witnesses who are dissatisfied with the current operation of the Watch Tower and the history of Jehovah’s Witnesses. Unfortunately, many have become mentally depressed.
Both my parents were Bible Students before Judge Rutherford gained control of the Watch Tower. From a young age I have vivid memories of discussions my parents had with other Bible Students from Pastor Russell’s day concerning the takeover of the Watch Tower by Judge Rutherford and the direction he pursued.
Also, my situation in the Bible Student movement during the 1940s through the 1960s enabled me to have discussions with more close associates of Pastor Russell than other Bible Students. This history has been invaluable to me.
I learned from these associates of Pastor Russell that in 1926 Judge Rutherford discarded the basic Scriptural teaching of character development. Galatians 5:18-25 and 2 Peter 1:4-11. He said we are characters and can’t change. They felt this was to justify some of his questionable actions. Actually, this was the beginning of the end of many Bible Students’ relationship to the Watch Tower. Why?
Pastor Russell’s Bible Students cherished the teaching of character development. They believed that the 144,000 were to share with Jesus in the Kingdom, as sympathetic priests (1 Peter 2:9) who would nurture, develop in love and judge the world of mankind. To qualify for this work they must now develop the character likeness of the Heavenly Father. 2 Corinthians 3:18.
The writer published some of this material in the 1950s, 1970s and most of it in the 1990s, but the need is now greater than ever. The information goes forth with the prayer that by our Heavenly Father’s grace it will give Scriptural direction to those who love Jehovah.
To read more, click on this link: C.T. Russell Not Founder of JWs
To Jerome;
Read all of Charles Taze Russell’s writings. You will be amazed at how many times he tells about Jesus ransom sacrifice.
So in a separate small writing where his name is mentioned more then Jesus, you have to give credit to the believers thinking ability because they know how Charles Taze Russell believed in Jesus as the Son of God.
I read this publication and found it inaccurate and biased. It was obviously written to defend and support “religious” organization and to deify men; in this case Charles Taze Russell.
At Matthew 23:8, Jesus said: “But YOU, do not YOU be called Rabbi, for one is YOUR teacher, whereas all YOU are brothers.”
The word “Rabbi” means Teacher. Why then is Charles Taze Russell being called “Teacher?” This article and much of what appears on this website highlight’s “Russell’s” teachings and Russell having “students.”
The Bible is even highlighted as a “Teacher” as persons say they are “Bible Students.” If they are Bible Students, then the Bible is the Teacher.
Yet, Jesus said, “for one is YOUR teacher.” It is obvious that he was referring to himself.
What is most disturbing about this publication is that it mentions Russell’s name 85 times and Jesus’ name 10. This is mot curious.
It underscores a much more serious problem, mindset, and deception that men are indeed being deified and looked to rather than Christ.(Luke 9:35)
The world is indeed in a deep slumber.
Jerome – Many different topics are covered on this site. The specific purpose of the book you refer to demonstrate that Brother Russell founded the Bible Student Movement and Rutherford the JWs. It is not a study about Jesus. You said you found the book inaccurate and biased. Please provide specific examples, so we know what you are talking about. The Brother who wrote the book is over 90 years old now. He met and talked with hundreds of Bible Students who personally knew Brother Russell and JF Rutherford. So I am very curious to find out from you exactly what is inaccurate.
To all characters;
The only place I could find it written in the Bible was Ezra 4:7. “and the writing of the letter was written in the Syrian character, and set forth in the Syrian tongue.” ASV 1901
So we can say it is in the Bible. Not like Pergatory which we know isn’t.
To Zenodotus and Anomymous;
In the book of Recociliation pages 26,27, it had this to say. “Adam, as the prince of the earth, resided in Eden.Adam was perfect and his home was perfect. It will not do to say that he was only partially perfect, and that he had at that time no opportunity to develope a character, and therefore his character was imperfect. It is written that ‘all the works of Jehovah are perfect’. (Deut. 32:4) It was impossible for Adam to develope a character, because God made him a character. Every creature of intelligence is a character,. He does npt possess a character.”
i agree brother,very nice notion
To Zenodotus;
Your welcome.
To ZenoDotus;
Will research my 21 books from JFR right now.
The HARP OF GOD=======nothing.
RECONCILIATION========page 245 on “Character Developemeny,”They say; ‘We must develope character and get ready to go to heaven.’ There is no record in the Scriptures that Jesus ever bemoaned his condition on earth or claimed he wanted to get away from the trials and woes of the wicked world and go to heaven. Never at any time did he say anything about developing character that God might take him to heaven. It is true that he prayed to his Father to glorify him with the glory which he possessed before he came to earth, but that was after his work on earth had been completed. He did not even request the great reward of immortality. It is true that the Christian has the hope of immortality set before him and rejoices in this hope; but if that alone constitutes the inducing cause for him to be a Christian, he is coming far short of that which God purposed for him.
I think this is what you are looking for. Was fortunate to hit it on the second book I pulled out. Tell Peter K. you found a reference so he doesn’t keep looking.
All true Christians have to develope the “Christ like” character…we all have a “wrestling” with inside and outside forces.
Ken, I need you to get the tract that was released at the convention if you will. My sister says it make reference to the Bible Students. She is at work now and the track is at home. She got it yesterday. Does anyone have it? And can you type the paragraph about the Bible Students please. I am calling around now to find it. Thanks. Also Ken did you notice Pearl’s comment?
Hi Jacqueline, our convention isn’t until August, but you would think it would be online by now since the new video already is. What was Pearl’s comment?
Look below Max’s comment and below that my comment. She makes some interesting points about why you can get DF”d now. I am trying to find it on the web now.
Ok Jacqueline, I just read it….WOW! Is this just something she noticed in a certain cong. or is becoming a wide spread thing?
In 2009 I would comment on the unread sripture and the brother would caution me to read only the scripture that the society says to read. I wondered why they would be so strict. I left because you couldn’t express yourself at all. Everyone just restated what was written in the mag. Some even would read their comment. I felt it was a waste of my time to keep driving that far so I went on hook up for 6 months. Since I never challenged them I didn’t know you could get DF’d. I learned that I did have an apostasy meeting but was unaware of what it was. My elders told me they would write the society and tell them that they didn’t agree with their assessment. At the time I didn’t understand what that meeting was. If I had I would have met them with my lawyer. I had a restraining order against them that was only 2 months old. They fooled me on that one. Now I am aware of the fact this is a corporation. The $28 million judgement should make them change their policies now hopefully.
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_MOLESTATION_LAWSUIT_AWARD?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2012-06-16-18-33-53
I heard about this court case. Jacqueline….I just found out how to get the new tract(brochure) info. from the 2012 convention…..I’ll get back to you…….
Here’s the link to the new brochure…..http://www.sendspace.com/file/mre7o9 brochure
Jacqueline, I didn’t see any references to Bible students per se, howeever, it did mention the JW’s began in a small group in the 1870’s
Thanks for the hard work Max!
Well done brother.Let me help your research on what brother Rutherford truly believed on that matter, because many misunderstand his attitude
In the “Light” book , 1st volume, he writes about those who left the organization on 1917 and their so called eagerness of creating a “good” character
“These dreamers have claimed to
do some work, but have not been doing it according
to the way God commanded. They have never seen
and appreciated the clear distinction between Satan’s
organization and God’s organization, and hence re-
fuse to say anything concerning Satan’s organization
and neglect to bo zealous witnesses for the Lord.
Their works consist of meditation, attending some
class studies and again going over matters that the
Lord gave the church years ago, and in doing what
they say is the development of the graces and fruits
of the spirit and a beautiful character. They do not
understand or realize that the fruit of the spirit is
love, which means an unstinted devotion to God and
activity in his service accordingly. They fail to see
that the fruit of the spirit can be manifested only by
joyfully doing the will of God in obedience to his
commandments, (Matt. 7:20, 21; 1 John 5:3)”(Light , 1st volume ,page 46)
Also, another quote from the “Light” book 2nd volume
“Many people of the earth have been led to believe that these men are honest, because of their suavity of speech and great hypocritical, sanctimonious manner, and the crocodile tears that they shed. Many of these men have come in contact with present truth disclosing the presence of the Lord and his kingdom and have selfishly used the literature that the Lord has provided, claiming the authorship of certain truths, and have mixed these with their false doctrines to deceive the people, and have deceived many. That they will die in Armageddon if certain. If they were never brought out of the tomb again many might think that God had not given them a full chance. If brought out of death at the end of Christ’s reign they will demonstrate that they belong to Satan and are unworthy of life, and, joining Satan’s host, they will be consigned to everlasting death; and then all will see that Jehovah is just and true and his judgments right, and his word and name will be for ever justified.”(Light 2 ,page 215)
So, Brother Rutherford said that the hypocritical “good” character is bad before the eyes of God, not the effort of creating a christlike personality. Tha was his view in that point , as his works shows. There is NOT one single word in his writing works that shows that it is bad developing a christlike character and christian qualities. Not even ONE.He was in harmony with what brother Russell wrote on that subject, and still the Watchtower encourages to develop our christian character and virtues in order to gain everlasting life.
19 – A coluporter in the days of Bro. Russell, Bible Student Elder, G. Russell Pollock told of how JFR ridiculed character development from the platform, pronouncing it ‘char-AK’-teer’ and saying, “You don’t have a character, you are a character.” The stress Bible Students were putting on character development, JFR evidently felt a need to counter it. Others have spoken similarly of their observations.
There is a lengthy article in the May 1st, 1926 Watch Tower, where JF Rutherford dismisses the whole concept of building a Christ-like character: The name of the article is “Character or Covenant – Which?” It’s 6 pages long. You can find it here: – May 1, 1926 – page 131, no. 9. http://www.scribd.com/doc/42375551/Watchtower-1926 – There is a quote somewhere (can’t locate it right now) where the Judge states that “Character development is a tool of the devil” and stresses witnessing as the Christians duty. I will try to find the exact quote and get back to you.
Brothers Emil and Otto Sadlack from Germany wrote a chapter in their book, “Desolations of the Sanctuary” in the 1930s on this very topic of Rutherford change of view on “character development.” The article contains not only quotes from the article above, but also other quotations, poems, and letters that were published on this through the later 1920’s.
In this WatchTower article [May 1, 1926, Character or Covenant — Which] (you can download it from http://www.jw-archive.org) in attacking ‘character development’ Rutherford attacks a straw man. The premise of the article and the attacks he makes are on those who believe they can be ‘perfected’ in this life and this is the attitude he suggests that those who left the society had. Rutherford further denotes that we ARE a character, not that we possess one. He then compares the straw man argument regarding ‘character development’ with that of the immortal soul.
This is a very strange argument as I do not know anyone who would suggest that ‘character developement’ is like perfecting an immortal soul.
In paragraph 14 of the article the question is asked, “Is it a proper expression therefore to say that a Christian must develop a character pleasing to God before he can be received into the kingdom? Such is not a correct expression, because it implies that the Christian must develop something toa point where God will approve him, that he must do this by his own efforts, and that the thing developed is something separate and sitinct from himself.” Rutherford’s reasoning here is strange. Why is he attacking ‘character development’ as if it were an ‘immortal soul’? Why is he suggesting that those who believe in this think that they must do this by themselves, of their own accord or will?
His reasoning continues in paragraph 16, “At the time one is begotten of the holy spirit he becomes a new create. He is then a character. He is a Christian. He does not possess a Christian nor does he possess a character. He is now in the rough. Must this Christian, this man, this new creature, this character, undergo a change, or must this christian develop a character to perfection before God can receive him?”
After quoting Romans 8:29 Rutherford states, “This does not even intimate that Christ Jesus must develop a character and that the members of his body must develop each a character.”
Rutherford argues a straw man argument by again responding to 1 John 3:2 and the spiritual resurrection change that the anointed will receive by stating, “The Christian’s individual effort does not bring about this change of appearance.” I don’t think any Brethren had stated that they make this spiritual body resurrection change themselves.
He continues…”Many Christian have been led to believe that morality and chastity constitute the character of a person which the Lord will approve. That is the world’s standard. That is the standard that the enem has induced nominal Christendom to set up. . . . The devil has induced nominal Christians to believe that if they are moral and chaste and do not commit other unlawful acts God will approve them and take them to heaven as soon as they die. This is entirely a misconception. The true Chrisitan must have a far higher standard than that.
In the 24th paragraph he said, Jesus was a perfect character when on the earth. He did not have a character to develop; he was a character, and he was perfect ….” Did Rutherford forget that Jesus was perfected by the things that he suffered? (Hebrews 2:10, 1 Peter 2:21). Rutherford’s response to this was, “The answer is, No. Jesus entered into a covenant with his Father to do his Father’s will. He was put the the most severe tests, and under these tests he proved his unswerving loyalty, devotion, and faithfulness to God…. He met all these tests and thereby compltely learned obedience?”
I can’t seem to follow his logic here and not sure how any of this is an argument against what the Brethren had said previous to this ‘new light’.
While arguing against “character development” Rutherford argues, “the Christian must increase in knowledge, which means to have a clear perception of the truth. He must walk in the light, which light increases from day to day because it is God’s light. This will require that he shall faithfully study the Word of God in the light of the unfolding prophecies and not conclude that he shall reach a certain point when no more light will be given on God’s word.”
Again…another straw man argument. No brethren believe that no more light is given on God’s word…although the WT society seems to be fearful of ‘running ahead of Jehovah’ if one should have ‘new light’ that the society does not have based on Scriptural principles and research.
In the entire article Rutherford sets up this ‘straw man’ argument about this ‘character development’, and then applies much of the fallacious arguments to those they had formerly associated with, as if only they themselves were attempting to follow God’s will and proceed in the light.
The Harp of God was published before this ‘new light’ in 1927.
As I stated previously, Emil and Otto Sadlack from Germany wrote a chapter in their book, “Desolations of the Sanctuary” in the 1930s on this very topic of Rutherford change of view on “character development.” The article contains not only quotes from the article above, but also other quotations, poems, and letters that were published on this through the later 1920′s.
Here is what they wrote. Keep in mind many of the WTs are the translated from the German editions. At some point in the future I hope to have all of these quotations updated to the English versions.
————————————————————
THE DEVELOPMENT OF CHARACTER
“Character cannot be developed wholly without trial. It is like a plant: at first it is very tender; it needs an abundance of the sunshine of God’s love; frequent watering with the showers of his grace; much cultivating through the applied knowledge of his character as a good foundation for faith and inspiration to obedience; and then, when thus developed under these favorable conditions, it is ready for the pruning hand of discipline, and is also able to endure some hardness. And little by little, as strength and character is developed, the tests applied to it serve only to develop more strength, beauty and grace, until it is finally fixed, developed, established, perfected—through suffering.” (C. T. Russell in Manna of Jan. 20) “If we do not develop this character now, the moral character of our Lord Jesus Christ, we will not have a share in the Messianic kingdom.” (Extract from one of C. T. Russell’s sermons published in the newspapers.)
* * *
“… Let the dreaming and talking of ‘developing a perfect character’ cease. Let all Christians be active in the performance of their covenant…”
“Satan (!) has turned the minds of millions into the channel of supposed ‘character development’…”( J. F. Rutherford in W.T. 1926:136; 1927:199)
“I have just been in a three-day convention where four elders took up about four-fifths of the time and never once mentioned the kingdom work. They talked on character development all the time, making a few excuses for the Watch Tower, … until I reminded the brethren that they were fifteen years back in the harvest and not in the kingdom at all.” (Letter from a Pilgrim Brother, W.T. 1926:286)
* * *
Note, beloved, the “development”—in the teaching of the Watch Tower Society and backward development of the Christian character? Do you note how the most sacred of Christian principles and feelings are reviled and declared useless? Read carefully and with seriousness, as earnest Bible students, the words of Brother Russell cited above, and compare them with the two other citations of modern Bible students. That which was high and holy, yes, the highest duty in Brother Russell’s estimation, is ridiculed and put away with a wave of a hand as “dreamings” by his ‘successor,” who continually claims to have received brighter light since 1918! Oh, what an evil performance!
“Every true child of God must have a definite individual character…” Brother Russell says in the manna of September 17 in contrast to the present president of the Society, and we do not doubt for moment today the correctness of this thought. “In the development of a character in the likeness of their Redeemer they are daily ascending higher and are made fit for the heavenly kingdom…” Brother Russell writes in another place (W.T.R4445 204445). Until the appearance of the Watch Tower article “Character or Covenant?” discourses and essays upon character-development were much appreciated. The Manna texts, which treat of this almost exclusively, were read with pleasure until then, and expositions by serving Pilgrim brethren and others were especially enjoyed when they treated of character development in Christ. But when the president of the Watch Tower Society commanded: “Let the dreaming and talking of developing of a perfect character cease!” then all the (favorable) talking and writing concerning it ceased immediately—amongst those who obey blindly. What an authoritative order can accomplish! Do we still marvel over the blind obedience of the catholic world to the decisions and regulations of their papal head?
The article “Character or Covenant?” is only directed to this, to divert the Lord’s faithful from their chiefest duty, i.e., preparing themselves, and to give them instead, as questionable compensation, outward service and still more service and colporteur’s work. Yes, this service is even said to be the “treasure in the earthen vessel” of 2 Corinthians 4:7, according to the present teaching of the Society! Nothing shall be said against activity in the Lord’s service, but the activity should only proceed according to scriptural methods, in harmony with the truth. Our protest is aimed against the mockery and destruction of our first duty—the development of Christian character. It is not our thought that perfection of this character is attained before our course is finished, but nothing less than perfection is the goal for which we must strive, if we would obtain the glorious inheritance of the overcomers.
Brother Russell found some excellent words for this thought, as shown in the Manna of June 29, and we recommend a careful re-reading of this text. Wherever in recent times the Watch Tower contemplates character formation, it is only done in a bitingly-ironical, contemptuous, disdainful manner. They cannot do enough to slander this most essential activity of a Christian.
Let us hear some of these statements: “Many who have made a consecration to do the will of God have been induced to believe that by the ‘development of character’ pleasing to the Lord they could gain the kingdom as overcomers.
How absolutely unfounded in the Scriptures is such a conclusion! This has been one of the subtle tricks of the adversary to ensnare the consecrated.”
“But the devil deceives many and induces them to believe that by developing a character, so-called, that will entitle them to a place in God’s kingdom.”
“To teach, however, that by character improvement or development the Christian can be an ‘overcomer’ is to teach a delusion and a snare of the devil” (W.T. 1927:195, 199, 201, par. 4, 35, 44).
We refer to the slanders against Christian character-development reprinted on page 147, also to the articles in W.T. 1927:38, etc. (par. 34) 94, 95; 1926:259. Even in poems character-development is being reviled. The author of the poem appearing in the German W.T. 1927:288, which begins with the words: “Why do you labor, oh melancholy soul, in a false holiness for inward beauty?” seemingly does not know that there are also Christians who are laboring for this inward beauty in true holiness without being melancholy. “Let character-development rest now” (!) he tells the readers and closes his poem, so to speak, with a glorification of the “defects” which Jesus is to cover! Along with the Christian character-development, this primary condition for entrance into the heavenly kingdom, important truths, etc., are also reviled, as for example, the Christian’s longing for his heavenly home. such a longing is described as selfishness. We read: “It is a well-known fact that at the conventions held by those of present truth during the past several years, while the friends have talked much about the kingdom, the common theme of the conversation has been: ‘When are we going home? When shall we be relieved of earth’s woes and enter the kingdom and rule with the Lord?’ Has not the motive of both classes mentioned above, of those in present truth, been largely selfish?” (W.T. 1926:325; see also 1927:38).
In order to correctly understand the sense of the above words it is necessary also to read the last part of the preceding paragraph where it says: “…and, second, those who have accepted present truth and have really liked it, and have looked forward to the time when they might be taken to heaven and be relieved of all their earthly toils, and there enjoy forever ease and comfort.”
Is it no longer remembered what was communicated on the evening of Brother Russell’s funeral services (by the present president!) of the departed brother’s longing desire? (W.T.R6012 206012). And how is this ardent longing for union with the heavenly bridegroom today put down as selfishness and reviled! Was not the above mentioned “common theme of conversation at the conventions” thus used because it was “from the Lord,” as it is always asserted? Then from the Lord—and now selfishness?
We know that an ever greater importance is being attributed to the year 1918 for very specific reasons. This year is to mark the line between Elijah and Elisha, the new president assures us, between the unorganized and the organized church and—between the antiquated knowledge and the “brighter, better light.” Ostensibly the Lord came to His temple in that year and brought new revelations to His own. But in the matter of character-development even the fetishism of the mysterious year 1918 has not been able to supplant the old view (now called”snare, deception of Satan”). For, long after the Lord ostensibly came to His temple the formation of Christian character was described in the Watch Tower as absolutely necessary! For Example:.”the perfection of character here pointed out as the proper and desirable aim of all Christians, and prepared for by the Lord through the giving of his inspired word, should be the mark toward which all the soldiers of the cross running in the race for the great prize should bend their energies.” (W.T. 1919:255) Yes, they even chose a text for the year 1923 which had reference to formation of character! We read:
“The test for the year 1923 relates to the transformation of the Christian into the likeness of our Lord and Master, Christ Jesus. The complete transformation into His character likeness is the earnest desire of every one of his faithful followers.” (W.T.1923:6) And still later an article began with the words: “The new creature must grow into or develop the character-likeness of the Lord, his Head.” (W.T. 1923:184)
And later still, in answer to a question, it is deduced that the purpose of all study should be, to form a character in the likeness of our Lord Jesus, etc. (German W.T. 1923:336). In 1924, six years after 1918, in a special article (W.T. 1924:249) it is explained what character really means.
Also in German W.T. 1921:25; 1925:201; and W.T. 1923:217-218, character-formation is praised in articles, letters and in conventions, although supposedly the Lord had already come with the true light in 1918 ! Why did He leave His own so long in “Satan’s snare” (!) to form character? Or had He given the “true light” to the “official” management, which kept it hidden under a bushel for over seven years, for fear the friends might conceive it to be darkness? But when the year 1925 had passed by, and proved the “work of the Lord” to be man’s work, then it was suddenly said that character-development was ‘dreamings,” a “snare of Satan” and similar things. Thus they spoke with biting mockery against the blessed “activity,” after having highly praised this “development” only a few weeks previously. Yes, they were bold enough to assert here also that the meaning of character-development had not been understood before! And then the most poisonous arrows were shot at the hitherto praised activity. The former teaching of the Christian character formation was said to be “a cunning move of the adversary to ensnare the consecrated,” a “deception of Satan,” “delusion of Satan,” “snare of the devil,” ‘Satan’s work of delusion,” that “in this condition (character-formation) one was supporting Satan’s organization and was a part of this world,” etc., in the same song of reviling. dear Brother Russell: Do you hear what your “successor” says about that which you stood up for? And yet it was “officially” declared, after you had just closed your eyes, that “the Watch Tower will continue to publish only that which is in harmony with what ‘that Servant’ has hereto fore given to the ‘household of faith.’”( W.T.R6024 206024, top.) Do you know that according to the judicial opinion of your “successor” you have been ensnared by “a cunning move of the adversary” for half a century?
Oh, they knew and know very well what character-development is. But they wanted to cover their own hollowness with outward activity. And an attack on the preparation was already made in 1927. We read in a letter published in the German Watch Tower of 1927:176: “How precious (!) is the thought also… (that) we need not be anxious about our preparation, since the fruit, consisting in the proclamation, includes all other fruits as a matter of course!” We entreat you to read a few striking Watch Tower expositions, as for example W.T. 1926:136, par. 46; p.232, par. 53; p. 278, par. 34; 1927:184, 195, 199-201.
The attempt to prove that character cannot be developed, because we do not have a character but are a character, is quite threadbare. The fact that a growth, a development must take place within us, cannot be upset by the Watch Tower definition of “character.” We are not here turning so much against the definition of this word, but, above all, against the derision of the life of sanctification, which until recently has been designated by all (the author of that Watch Tower article also!) as the means of character-development. For that matter, the thought of possession of character is quite customary in our colloquial language. By character we understand the sentiment, the direction of the mind, the being, the sum of a person’s qualities; in the present case, of a Christian. Qualities and virtues are certainly a part of our being, but we say rightly that as a person we possess or have them.
The virtues of a Christian we find also pictured as fruits of the Spirit in the Scriptures (Galatians 5; 22). And just as the fruits grow and ripen, so also these our spiritual virtues, which make up the Christian character, must be cared for, formed; they must grow and be increased after the pattern of Jesus Christ. Is it not this process which is called character-development? The Scriptures continually speak of a development, a growth about and in us. We read, for example, in
DOS163 Ephesians 4:15: “…But speaking the truth in love (we) may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, Christ.” Read also 2 Corinthians 4:16; Hebrews 5:12, 13; 6:1. The virtues of the Spirit which form the character are the results of impressions upon the “New Creation” or mind (2 Corinthians 5:17) which again is synonymous with the treasure in the earthen vessel, the “inward man” (2 Corinthians 4:7, 16). The Watch Tower simply ignores the scripturally proven growth and development of the New Creation. It has forgotten that the begotten New Creature must grow and increase till its birth, just as in the natural process. Yes, in a preceding paragraph of the article mentioned, it takes it upon itself to express the wholly unscriptural thought that the New Creation dies the sacrificial death! That which is sacrificed is, of course, eternally dead.
Even if we consider the character as something which is, and not as something we possess or have, the same obligation of a moral Christian life and walk results. The old nature—flesh, because born of the flesh—is of no use in producing the life in God (John 6:63; Romans 7:18; 8:8). The spirit-begotten one has to reckon himself dead toward that which concerns the power of the old nature (Romans 6:11). From this results the obligation to walk in the spirit (in newness of life, in the light) i.e., to make progress in the Christian life—to overcome, by striving to subdue all resistance of the flesh and eventually through Christ conquering it. Only thus can the spirit-begotten become in reality a New Creature on the spirit plane. This walk, this growing or progressing in the spirit, demands that we set all our thinking, feeling and willing wholly in harmony with God. The thoughts of God, the love of God, the will of God must become ours.
Only then are we in the truth, in Christ, who is the Truth. All the expressions of this our new life in Christ, i.e., our work in word and deed, must be in harmony with our inner life, else Christ, the truth, is not in us. Our Lord demands a clear decision—either cold or hot. We cannot sow in the one sphere and expect to reap in the other; either you are sowing to the flesh, and you will reap destruction, or you are sowing to the spirit and will reap life eternal. Only walking in the spirit will preserve us from the destructive lusts of the flesh. The walking—not the standing still! Standing still is retrogression.
The Lord Jesus, also the apostles, put the highest value upon our being in Christ, our life in Christ (John 6:56; 14:20; Galatians 2:20; Hebrews 13:20, 21; 1 John 2:6, 29). To walk in the spirit means a continuous growing into His likeness, His purity and glory, into His power of love. The spirit of Christ dwells only in a pure heart and abides only there where it can work out its results.
The writer of the Watch Tower article in which Christian character-development is derided, seems to have no conception of the holy inner life of a Christian. Anyone who interests himself in the life in God, will not permit himself to be carried away to a derision of that which we call character-development.
“Character or Covenant?” is not a matter of choice, for they co-exist. The fulfillment of the covenant by sacrifice—wherein does it consist? Is it not in the development of the Christian character? The covenant by sacrifice is not fulfilled solely by (outward) “works in His name” (many will once refer to these; comp. Matthew 7:22), but in a continuous growing into the likeness of Jesus Christ. And with this the outward activity will not be wanting, but this comes voluntarily, form an inner constraint of love, love to the Lord, not from ambition, or to please man or an organization. such Christian love qualifies for every sacrifice, even to the giving up of life itself—even for the enemy. A love which is not capable of this is not heavenly, divine love.
We have often experienced how quickly friends obey the Society. some who had not yet read the article “Character or Covenant,” when asked whether the former views concerning character-development are correct, affirmed this and declared a contrary assertion to be error. But after they had read the “Watch Tower” in which character-development is condemned as “dreamings,” they hastened to throw the former view overboard. That which had been accepted as truth for so long, was now put down as “dreamings,” because of the Watch Tower’s dogmatic assertion.
Now character-development has only a wretched, hangdog existence; only a “little” flock shows any further interest in this rejected essential of the Christian life. But they have chosen the better part. Dear brethren in Christ, do not let anyone take from you this blessed privilege of character-formation, even though the “only channel,” or an angel from heaven would rob you of it. Consider, if character-formation actually is what the newest desolators of the sanctuary teach, i.e., error, “dreamings,” a “snare of Satan,” then the apostle would also have been in this “snare of Satan!” Then Brother Russell also, so long glorified above measure by the same men who now speak so contemptuously of character-development, would himself have been a foolish dreamer. Of course, we know that Brother Russell is continually losing in importance as compared with his present “successor,” as already shown in our treatment of the new adaption of the type Elijah-Elisha.
The dictum “Character-development is dreaming” has ripened another “development.” We will not here make a detailed statement of certain things which here and there have occurred even in consecrated circle. They are the natural consequences of a cessation in character-formation, of the walk in the spirit (Galatians 5:16,17). Such shameful occurrences explain why such a strong assault is being made against character-development, which, of course, requires quite a struggle against the flesh and the world. the anathema against the striving for the character-likeness of Jesus Christ is an encouragement to an easy life and shallow walk. How significant in this connection are the words of a Sister in central Germany, who joyfully said to a prominent brother: “Oh, how happy am I now, that character-formation is unnecessary!”—As a sad indication of the cessation of character-formation we would also mention the words of a brother devoted to the Society which he unhesitatingly addressed to a dear Sister, but who is (as it is said) “in opposition to the work”: “I cannot love you, I must hate you, the world is dearer to me than you are!” Are these the fruits of the Spirit?
We must continually emphasize anew that every error brings new errors as a result. the virtues of a Christian actually are not prized as highly today by many Bible students, since the cessation of character-development, as they were formerly. And as the boundary between “this world” and “our world” is not so clearly seen since the cessation of character-development, therefore an entirely different meaning is given to the conception “World” (see example, 1 John 2:15-17). Now it is said, that to visit pleasure resorts, dance halls, etc., or to yield oneself to an immoral manner of life, does not belong to the “world” which must be overcome! (W.T. 1927:198-199).
We would ask: What then is the world? If such things do not belong to “this world” where do they belong? Perhaps to the results of the lessons of “God’s organization?” But we will understand all this when we recognize the causes of such erroneous doctrines; they love this world in many things and do not desire to specially trouble themselves to obey the admonition of Romans 12:2. We dislike to mention certain things here. The deciding question above all is: What is truth? But one thing is certain: Just as it is necessary today to preach conversion to the members in Christendom long dead, so it will be necessary soon to preach conversion (turning) from the way of “this world” to many Bible students.
We put to all the friends of the “Watch Tower,” especially the leaders, the solemn question: “Does not the character-formation of a Christian have to do with his sanctification? Did you not all understand it thus formerly? Do you not know that we still understand it thus today? Does it not come to your consciousness at all, that in your fight against character-development you are at the same time fighting against that which once you called with us the life of sanctification, and which we still call thus?”
Who will further cultivate the very necessary character-formation in Christ? who will espouse it? Who will do it, even though the number who love this work is very small? Who? Let him step forth and separate himself from those who desolate the moral integrity of the life of sanctification, who seek to draw us aside from the holiest duties of a Christian. Do not hesitate, servant of God! Tear the restraining bands, by the grace of God, and find the way to Him who has and is the Truth. and if you are in doubt, and ask: “What is the truth?” then pray to Him to enlighten you, for He Himself is Truth..
19 – You may have missed Jeff’s research on “Character Development” and Rutherford.
Has anybody any idea of there is any written proof for what is stated in the essay that Rutherford changed the fact of building your character?
ZENODotus – Much of this has come down from personal testimonies passed on our generation. I believe there are also Watchtower references, But it may take me a while to find some of them.
Thanks Peter,Jacqueline and everyone else, we can all get a clearer understanding on things by questioning them from all angles.
DITTO
Yeah it’s weird how the Jw’s call the BS “evil slaves” when lately they’ve been running a series of stories of the “history” of the Jw’s which has included the Bible students shown with the SITS volumes and of course photos of Pastor Russell! This is currently being run in their watchtower study edition.
We dont call the early BS “evil slave”.These brethren are in heaven now.They dont longer exist.You are just an immitation.This immitation is the “evil” one.And thats why you dont accept the present truth.SITS,volume 1,”Divine Plan of the Ages”:
“Those who will turn away from the mere speculations of men, and devote time to searching the Scriptures, not excluding reason, which God invites us to use (Isa. 1:18), will find that a blessed bow of promise spans the heavens. It is a mistake to suppose that those without faith, and consequent justification, should be able to apprehend clearly the truth: it is not for such. The Psalmist says, “Light [truth] is sown for the righteous.” (Psa. 97:11) For the child of God a lamp is provided whose light dispels from his pathway much of the darkness. “Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.” (Psa. 119:105) But it is only “the path of the just” that “is as the shining light, that shineth more and more unto the perfect day.” (Prov. 4:18) Actually, there is none just, “none righteous, no, not one” (Rom. 3:10); the class referred to is “justified by faith.” It is the privilege only of this class to walk in the pathway that shines more and more–to see not only the present unfoldings of God’s plan, but also things to come. While it is true that the path of each individual believer is a shining one,yet the special application of this statement is to the just (justified) as a class. Patriarchs, prophets, apostles and saints of the past and present have walked in its increasing light; and the light will continue to increase beyond the present–“unto the perfect day.” It is one continuous path, and the one continuous and increasing light is the Divine Record, illuminating as it becomes due…God’s Word is a great storehouse of food for hungry pilgrims on the shining pathway. There is milk for babes, and strong meat for those more developed (1 Pet. 2:2; Heb. 5:14); and not only so, but it contains food adapted to the different seasons and conditions; and Jesus said the faithful servant should bring forth meat in due season for the household of faith–“things new and old,” from the storehouse. (Luke 12:42; Matt. 13:52) It would be impossible to bring forth such things from any sectarian creed or storehouse. We might bring forth some things old and good from each, but nothing new. The truth contained in the creeds of the various sects is so covered and mixed with error that its inherent beauty and real value are not discernible. The various creeds continually conflict and clash; and as each claims a Bible basis, the confusion of thought, and evident discord, are charged to God’s Word. This has given rise to the common proverb: “The Bible is an old fiddle, upon which any tune can be played.”… Nor is it sufficient that we find ourselves now in the path of light; we must “walk in the light,” continue to make progress, else the light, which does not stop, will pass on and leave us in darkness. The difficulty with many is that they sit down, and do not follow on in the path of light. Take a concordance and examine the texts under the words sit and stand, then compare these with those found under the words walk and run, and you will find a great contrast: Men “sit in darkness,” and with “the scornful,” and stand among the ungodly, but “walk in the light,” and “run for the prize.” Isa. 42:7; Psa. 1:1; Heb. 12:1.Perfection of knowledge is not a thing of the past, but of the future–the very near future, we trust; and until we recognize this fact we are unprepared to appreciate and expect fresh unfoldings of our Father’s plan…Thus gradually God opens up his truth and reveals the exceeding riches of his grace; and consequently much more light is due now than at any previous time in the Church’s history.
“And still new beauties shall we see,
And still increasing light.”
BROTHER RUSSELL
Dear Br. Anonymous, thank you for replying. For the benefit of those that responeded last conversation, I want to let them know you are the same anonymous. Am I correct my brother? If so others will know how to direct. Take Care.
(This is Spring break here in America in my neck of the woods and grandaddy and I are up to our necks in grandbabies age 3, 5, 9 boys so I will just peek in as we try too entertain and drink energy drinks. LOL)
yes
Annonymous – When Judge Rutherford implemented a hostile takeover of the Watchtower, he changed the International Bible Student Association into an organization that attempted to take away the Christian liberty of each independent Congregation and bring them all under his control. Many of us Bible Students today can trace back our heritage to grandparents and great grandparents who were Bible Students in Brother Russell’s day. 75% of us broke away and regrouped to continue as we had been. The Bible Students of today believe exactly as they did in the days of the early Watchtower. We still study from the Bible and Charles Russell’s Studies in the Scripture series. True – the light gets brighter – but that means it just gets clearer, not that it keeps changing. And it has not changed. It is the same today as it was 100 years ago.
John 16:13 says, “When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth.” The Holy Spirit necessary to guide us to Truth. Do you ever go to Anointed JWs to ask them to explain scriptures to you? Do you believe there are Holy Spirit Anointed ones today in the JW Organization? Do you personally know any of them and have confidence that they are Spirit Anointed? If so, can you detect a difference in them and other JWs? Do they have more insight? Have you ever tried talking to them to verify this? Do they agree down the line with the JW Organization? Does that mean the Holy Spirit isn’t giving them any advantage since they are doing what you do, that is, get all your understanding from the Organization without questioning any of it?
Peter, you said the light gets clearer,which I agree with,could you tell me which of Russell’s beliefs have changed besides some of the obvious ones like 1914 being the date when the anointed ones would go to heaven etc;
Ken – Prophecies about Israel have become more clear for example, since Russell’s time. Nothing has changed at all as far as most Bible Students are concerned. It is up to each one to decide in their own mind. The conventional thinking among the anti-JW Christian world is that Russell was wrong on 1914, but generally the people who say he was wrong, never read Volume 2. Personally, I think Russell was right on with 1914. The Europeon Kings lost their thrones and colonies, church/state rule ended and the Balfour Declaration proclaimed Palestine a homeland for the Jews. Russell expected too much to happen more quickly. The Volume 2 forward clarifies. Compare the Jews looking at prophecy who expected the 70 weeks of Daniel 9 would point to a Messiah that would immediately defeat the Romans and set up the earthly kingdom. They were right in pinpointing the prophecy to that time, but their expectations of what would happen were too high. That didn’t make the 70 weeks prophecy wrong. After Christ’s death and resurrection, the meaning of Daniel 9 became more clear.
Yes Peter I agree Russell was right about 1914 being the end of the Gentile times(eventhough many thought they’d be taken to heaven then). But what about the belief that Jesus’ sacrifice even covered Adams sin, was that taught by Russell or was it a new belief?
Russell’s biggest teaching was “A RANSOM FOR ALL” which includes the resurrection of Adam. There is a chapter in the Divine Plan of the Ages called, “Ransom and Restitution.” There is a more detailed chapter on the Ransom in Volume 5. I’ll try to find a citation for you.
The whole philosophy of the Ransom (Greek Anti-lutron – meaning corresponding price) is that Jesus was an exact corresponding price for Adam which met the terms of justice. A perfect human life (Jesus) for a perfect human life (Adam). As it says in the Law of Moses, “an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, a life for a life.”
Here is one of many quotes that show that Russell believed that Adam would be resurrected: “But if He was The Christ, the Sent of God, who left the glory of the Father and was made flesh that He might “taste death for every man,” then we behold Him as the great Redeemer of the world, whose death was necessary as a Ransom, or corresponding price, to secure the release of mankind from the death sentence and to make possible the resurrection of Adam and his race.” This is taken from ::R5120 : page 328:: under the subhead “THE GREAT QUESTION.”
So at the end of the 1,000 Yr. reign when mankind is restored to Adamic perfection, and someone sins wilfully,like Adam did, shouldn’t they be forgiven too like Adam was?
At the end of the 1,000 Year reign, as I understand it, if anyone sins willfully, they will face the “second death.” The entire 1,000 Year reign is the judgment period. If anyone sins willfully, during that time, that was their chance to be forgiven as it is for Adam.
My point is PERFECT Adam already had his chance at proving faithful under trial…but he failed, so at the end of the 1,000 Yr. reign, when everyone is judged,and those who’ve been judged for gehenna will be able say…Well Jehovah, I know I failed the final test but can you give me one more chance like you did Adam?Since Jehovah is a just God, what do you think he’d say?
Ken, I think that Jehovah knows everything, even that Adam would sin. It was his purpose to create man and no one puts a wrinkle in his plan. He didn’t react to Adam’s sin, he knew it already. In his wisdom he decided to let man learn from his experience with evil and disobedience to see that the new world under Christ is far better. To follow rule by Jehovah after the Millenium.
Now, where did Adam have a test other than what Jah put before him of eating from the tree. Perhaps you will say he that is faithful in what is least etc. But this was a life or death matter. Adam never could imagine an atomic bomb dropping on his children. Measles, Malaria, Mumps, Polio, heart disease, Cancer. He had no experience with sin. Eve was deceived but Adam knew snakes didn’t talk, so his sin was willful in that regard. The Bible said dust tho art and dust tho shall return. Where is the greek word for Gehenna here? where is there a penalty of everlasting death. Well what about Eve, she started it with Adam, and she only got a punishment of severe childbirth pain and that she would be in a male dominated society of this world. Both proved true for her and Adam returned to dust. Now Jehovah was talking to Eve and Adam when he at Gen.3:15 offered hope for them. Those two people only heard that from God. It will apply to all of their progeny. But he was talking to them. We as witnesses tended to put words into the mouth of the Bible. Jehovah was issuing harsh punishments there to snake, and all. Wouldn’t this be a good time to say and into everlasting death tho shall go. Maybe he didn’t say it because only Jehovah witnesses believe that. It is another let’s all be different approach of Br. Rutherford. Adam just might be our best ally and teacher after seeing what happened to his progeny. He never saw what death of a human was like until after Abel. Animal death was never meant to be mourned. They don’t have “time indefinite inside of them’. So seeing animals die is not like seeing humans die. He knew better than to eat but he learned through experience to not disobey God’s laws for they are for our edification. Remember he is a just God and the punishment fits the crime. Are we more just than him? Just my thoughts.
PS. Ken I think at the end of the thousand years they will have seen from 6,000yrs of experience that God’s just way is the best. God set in motion man’s sestoration from the founding of the world. Not the throwing down of seed at Eve’s creation as the society teaches. Literally as he created what he foresaw was already being set in morion a redeemer. If you have children you know you see it coming but you let them go on make the mistake and learn./ Then you already knew you would have to help and that child learned a valuble lesson. (just saw second part to your comment.)
Ken – You make perfect sense and you present a very logical case. To my mind, the real issue here is what the Bible specifically teaches on the matter. We can quote many scriptures that say that ALL will be saved and come back.
John 5:28-29 – “the hour is coming in which ALL who are in the graves will … come forth” NKJV
Rom 5:18 “through one Man’s righteous act the free gift came to ALL men, resulting in justification of life”
We can quote many more scriptures like this, but the point is that they say “ALL” without listing exceptions.
A very important verse in this discussion is: 1 Tim 2:6 – “who gave Himself a RANSOM for ALL, to be testified in due time,” NKJV
Ken – a very critical part of this discussion is the actual definition of the word “RANSOM.” It is from the Greek word “Anti-lutron” and it means “an equivalent, corresponding price.” This concept of the “corresponding price” is a fixed law of God’s universe! It is expressed in Israel’s Law Covenant: “You shall give LIFE for LIFE, eye for eye, tooth for tooth” Ex 21:23-24 … even so in CHRIST shall All be made Alive.”
1Co 15:22 says, “For since by a man (Adam) came death, by a man (Jesus) came also the resurrection of the dead.”
Jehovah’s justice demanded a LIFE for a LIFE. The only equivalent LIFE of perfect Adam was perfect Jesus. The human race inherited their sin from Adam (Rom 5:12 “through one man sin entered the world”). By dying in Adams place, Jesus removes Adams sin and thereby removes the condemnation the human race inherited from him. Mankind can come back to life, only by virtue of the fact that Adam is coming back. If Adam cannot be Ransomed, than the sin inherited from Adam by the human race cannot be removed all at once.
CONSIDER THE CONTRASTS BETWEEN ADAM AND JESUS:
1 ADAM – A Perfect Man-with the right to live forever, as long as he obeyed God.
JESUS – A Perfect Man. (Not of Adamic descent born of a virgin by God’s power.)
2 ADAM – Sinned through disobedience
JESUS Obeyed God perfectly.
3 ADAM – Condemned to death. “In the day that you eat of it you will surely Die”Gen 2:17; “For the wages of sin is death.” Ro 6:23; “The soul that sins, it shall die.” Eze 18:4 3.
JESUS Had the right to Live forever, because obedient. “If a man be just, and do that which is lawful and right he shall surely live, says the Lord God.” Eze 18:5, 9; “Walk in His ways that you may live.” De 30:16
4 ADAM – All of Adam’s children (the entire human race) inherit Adam’s sin and sentence of death. Rom 5:12,17-18; 1Co 15:21-22 4.
JESUS – If Jesus had fathered children, his descendants would inherit his perfection, and if obedient, live forever.
5 ADAM – and all mankind would be condemned to eternal death and dying-unless another perfect man offered to give his life as a ransom (“corresponding price”) in Adam’s place.
JESUS Jesus gave up his own perfect human life to die as a ransom in place of Adam, thereby releasing the death sentence upon Adam and all his posterity!
Here is a seven minute video that demonstrates the meaning of “RANSOM” with a great illustration of balancing scales
Hi Peter,Yes I viewed the video(thanks)it was a review of a concept I was already familiar with.To me, it’s just showing that in order for mankind to be redeemed he needs a new father to REPLACE the old one,a perfect one.It’s like kids having a father that turns out to be a murderer and he is sentenced to death,so the grandfather not wanting to see them left destitute, makes provision through another son to pay off debts so the children can have a new life but this provision is only in effect, as long as,the children obey the requirements of the grandfather.
Well I just “happened” to start reading the 5th volume of SITS last night(Atonement between God and man)and ‘lo and behold’…the first section is talking about the subject of the ranosom for all,including Adam! After reading and looking up a few scriptures I began to realize that Jehovah’s justice tempered with mercy would make it possible for Jehovah to forgive Adam and Eve!
Ken I have grands until Sat. I am going to start the 5th (sits.) since you brought that out. Having been with my family for 2 1/2 weeks (went to Disney)now I want next week to be all about learning about the ransom and what we have to do as far as is revealed now. I feel I have been blessed to still have my family intact. One ex-elder was here when I got 6 calls from six different family JW and 3 calls from non family members from this area. We thought that was strange for my phone to ring so much in one day. I take it from Jehovah to be courageous this Memorial and get to my brothers physically on that day. I really appreciate what you bring to this site Ken. It brings out the vast storehouse of knowledge out of Br. Peter and Br. Jeff’s head. They are a lifeline for so many. Jesus is using them in this special ministry to us former witnesses. Enjoy your read, I will join you tomorrow and catch up.LOL
Ken – What this really proves is that I don’t make any sense, so it’s better for smart people like you to just go straight to the Volumes to get their answer. LOL
Ken – I want to go back to this point, because it is a very logical and good point. I think the answer is that Adam and his posterity were not outright forgiven. Justice demanded that a Ransom (corresponding price) had to be provided for Adam to release him from the prison house of death (so to speak). So, in your question you rhetorically asked if someone sins after the 1,000 years, shouldn’t they be forgiven? I think the answer is that in theory they could be forgiven if the demands of justice were met on their behalf. In other words, let’s say Ken that after the 1,000 years a perfect person agreed to give their life a ransom price to save someone who had disobeyed Jehovah. This could meet the demands of justice to bring the sinner back, however I don’t believe that at that point that Jehovah would approve such a transaction.
Peter/Jacqueline and Sharon,all your points make sense,however, consider this scripture: Heb. 10:26….”if we practice sin willfully after having received the accurate knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice for sins left”…….Since Adam was perfect and had accurate knowledge of the truth that was needed for him at that time(the knowledge of not to eat from the tree in the middle of the garden)but sinned anyway;he was no longer covered by Jesus Christ sacrifice.
Ken – Fellowshipping with you in scripture study is a pleasure because you actually have legitimate scriptures to back up your point. In this case, I think Paul is talking about the same group in verse 29 where he says (Heb 10:29 NASV) “How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace?”
I believe that only those begotten of the Holy Spirit (Anointed) have this blood covenant relationship. In the Bible, sanctification is closely connection with the indwelling Holy Spirit (being Anointed). 1 Pet 1:2 (NKJV) says “sanctification of the Spirit” and 2 Thess 2:13 (NKJV) sasy “Sanctification by the Spirit.”
In the same book, Heb 6:4 (NASV) says “For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.”
In other words, Jesus died for all people just once. The Anointed are on trial for life during the Gospel Age. Therefore, they are sanctified and Spirit Begotten (Anointed). Turning back and rejecting this covenant relationship results in second death since Jesus sacrifice can only be applied once.
What about the angels that sinned at the time of the flood? 2 Pet 2:4 says, “For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to pits of darkness, reserved for judgment.” Why weren’t these angels destroyed? It says they are reserved for judgment, which implies that some of them may repent. 1 Cor 6:3 says, “You shall judge both men and angels.” So the faithful bride of Christ will participate in judging angels that sinned against clear knowledge and had no excuse. There would be no future judgment discussed if they had already been judged and destroyed in the past.
Jehovah is very loving and patient.
2 Peter 3:9 – “The Lord is … longsuffering …not wishing that any should perish” ASV
1 Tim 2:4 – God “desires ALL men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.”
John 3:17 – God sent his Son to save, not condemn, the world.
(see also Isa 14:24; Isa 45:22-23; Jonah 3:10)
Ken, I really like letting Br. Peter show strong scriptural support for what I now believe is the truth about our first parents. Eve has always concerned me as She was listening to other people (Adam and angel). Also Jehovah wasn’t as harsh with her, leaving me always to think that Jesus could cover her sin. Because 1Peter 1:20 says he (Christ) was known before the founding of the world so Adam and Eve should have been covered as Br. Peter is showing from scripture. To say he isn’t is to assume I would think because Jehovah never stated an exception in scripture to any of mankind not being able to benefit from the ransom. The Ransom for all was a doctrine taught by the society as early as the 1950’s when I was a little girl and I once mentioned it at a CO visit and was strongly told that was old truth or what had I been reading? After the meeting I told him I was perhaps 20 years his senior and remembered it as being taught but changed in the 1960’s.
According to Ge. 3:15 Jehovah told the serpent(Satan)he’d be “bruised in the head”(death)so his judgement has already been decided, his case can be compared to a murderer who has been sentenced to death but the date of execution is in the future and when it finally does come the judge,executioner and jury will have a part in it being carried out.So it’s the same with the anointed ones in heaven; they’ll help Jesus in some way to carry out this judgement, i.e.;execution.
Ken – Again I think you are bringing out a good scriptural argument. Here is how I would respond. In my mind there is a difference between a death sentence and judging a case. How can the Anointed Bride of Christ judge angels if they have already been judged? Just a formality? This is the same position taken by Denominational Christians of Rev 20 where the books are open and people are judged. They view the resurrection of mankind as a formality. Most of these people are already in Hell, but now their souls are joined to their bodies and they are sent to the Lake of Fire. It really makes no sense. The Merciful Jehovah gives them the 1,000 years as a time for education and repentence.
Did the Ransom video with the balance scales not impress you? How do you explain the word RANSOM which in the Greek is “Anti-lutron” meaning an equivalent or corresponding price?” Isn’t this in connection with Ex 21:23 “Life for Life”?
Why do dozens of scriptures that say ALL will be saved or resurrected don’t list exceptions? For example
1 John 2:2 – “He is an atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. – Weymouth
1 Tim 4:10 – God…is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe. NKJV
Rev 22:17 – “the bride say, “Come!”… Whoever desires, let him take the water of life freely. NKJV
[An invitation to unbelieving mankind on Paradise Earth.]
Rom 8:19,21 – “the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God… also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God NKJV
Gen.22:18 – “In your seed ALL the nations of the earth shall be blessed ” NKJV
Luke 2:10 – “the angel said…I bring you good tidings of great joy… to ALL people.” NKJV
Heb 2:9 – “But we see Jesus … that He … might taste death for EVERYONE.” NKJV
John 12:32 – “And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw ALL peoples to Myself.” NKJV
John 1:29 – “John …said, “Behold! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world! NKJV
John 6:51 – “the bread that I shall give is My flesh, which I shall give for the life of the world.” NKJV
Isa 40:5 – “The glory of the LORD shall be revealed, And ALL flesh shall see it together ” NKJV
Hag 2:7 – “And I will shake all nations, and the desire of ALL nations shall come” KJV
Acts 24:15-16 – “there will be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and the unjust.” NKJV
John 5:28-29 – “the hour is coming in which ALLl who are in the graves will … come forth” NKJV
Rom 5:18 “through one Man’s righteous act the free gift came to ALL men, resulting in justification of life”
1 Cor 15:22 – “as in Adam ALL die, even so in Christ ALL shall be made alive.” NKJV
Phil 2:9-11 – EVERY knee should bow…and EVERY tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,
Rev 15:4 – all nations shall come and worship before You..” NKJV
Dan 7:14, 27 – “ALL peoples, nations, and languages should serve Him” His kingdom is everlasting
Isa 66:23 – all flesh come to worship before me, saith Jehovah. ASV
Ps 22:27 – “ all the families of the nations Shall worship before You.” NKJV
Ps 138:4 – “All the kings of the earth shall praise You, O LORD “ NKJV
Ps 72:8,11,17 – “all kings shall fall down before Him; All nations shall serve Him” NKJV
Rev 11:15 – “kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord… He shall reign forever”
Rev 21:23-24 – “the nations shall walk amidst the light thereof: and the kings … bring their glory into it.” Mal 1:11 “My name shall be great among the Gentiles; In every place incense shall be offered to” God
(see also Ps 86:9; Ps 65:1-2; Zech 2:11; Zech 9:10)
Rev 5:13 – “And every creature … heard I saying, Blessing, and honor…to… the Lamb for ever” AKJV
I want to make another point, besides the ones already made… I do believe that Hebr 10:26 can turn “against us”, but I don’t agree that this has to be the case with Adam and Eve… The tree is a interesting symbol… Adam and Eve were innicent in a pure form… They didn’t know the difference between Good and Evil… Jehovah told them not to eat from the tree, for then they would die… That was what they knew, so Satan came and told them they could be like God, knowing good and evil… As the bible let us know that was exactly what was the case… Adam and Eve learned about the fact of Good and evil… And that is the case with the people in the 1000-year kingdom, they will have learned…
75% is plasmatic,and is taken by an apostatic book.Judge rutherford didnt mention exactly, in numbers how many they left the truth.Also, by taking for a proof the memorial accounts,that leads you to nothing.Memorial numbers do not represent the exact number of the believers as every JW knows. But you want records?Lets see some of them
Year Publishers Memorial
1914 5,155 18,243
1918 3,868 no record
1919 5,793 21,411
1922 no record 32,661
1923 no record 42,000
1924 no record 62,694
1925 no record 90,434
1928 23,988 no record
1935 56,153 63,146
There is in some years some small decrease , but the number 75% is fake, as the record shows.
Many original BS were already dead, before 1914, others before 1917 , others before 1925…so they stayed loyal to the Society
Anonymous please excuse my ignorance but I don’t understand exactly your point. It might be that I missed a comment or two since I was working today. But where do you get the scriptural support for your organizations and exactly what are you saying about the Biuble Students in simple language that I an others can understand so we can reply. In a spirit of friendliness I ask. Sincerely Jacqueline
What im saying is that the so called “75%of the BS” who left the Society is fake,as the written records show
Oh okay, I wasn’t sure. Thanks. My grandfather was one of those that stayed with the BS. In fact I remember when Jehovah Witnesses reached the 1 million mark. So we all have a rich history and we along with a few others realize that there is a Kingdom with a 144,000 and others in the administration that will implement the Ransom of Jesus Christ for all men. Take Care. Jacqueline
19 – Excellent question. You are a good thinker. We need more like you.
I am pulling together some documentation and will respond in the next few days.
19 – As for the numbers of brethren who departed the Society after JFR’s ascension to the presidency, much of that information was handed down among the Bible Students who were there. Statistics can be used just about any way one wishes, depending on when you start counting and how many joined the Society after JFR took over. Memorial records are just an indicator as some who joined after 1917 consecrated and partook of the Memorial with the Society for several years before leaving. In the meantime, still more were entering the Society as the “old timers” were leaving. However, in any case, significant drops in the memorial records would be evidence of people leaving.
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Watchtower Memorial Statistics
1917 – 21,274 attendance
1918 – 17,961 attendance
Notice the drop of 4,000 after 1917
1928 – 44,080 reporting, memorial attendance 17,380
Notice the drop from 90,434 in 1925 to 44,080 in 1928
http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/bible/47331/1/Statistics-are-Confusing-Memorial-Attendance-1914-1935
Alan Rogerson quotes from “Jehovah” (1934), p. 277, “Of the great multitude that left the world to follow Jesus Christ only a few are now in God’s organization.” That seems to go a long way towards confirming Memorial attendance figures like about 90,434 in 1925 vs. a bit over 19,000 in 1928.
Quote from Penton: “However, as unrivalled leader of the movement, Rutherford took Russell’s position for himself, de facto if not de jure. All this outraged many old-time Bible Students. According to available statistic for Memorial attendance, the Bible Student community was in 1928 reduced by four fifths – 80 % – and Rutherford was left with a following of less than 20,000 members, not more than what he had started with in 1917 (Penton 1961, 61).”
http://home.broadpark.no/~jhauglan/rutherford.htm
The WT annual meeting reports (Jan. 15 of each year) say there were about 150,000 shares voting in 1917, and from the vote totals given for 1918 there would have been about 163,300 shares voting (that figure is conspicuously absent in the report). It therefore catches one’s attention that JFR claims to have received 194,106 votes. It should therefore come as no surprise if some of us are cautious about believing things JFR says which cast JFR in a flattering light.
19 – you can investigate these memorial statistics for yourself on websites that have the old watchtowers. I hope to find time to do this with exact citations, but if you find the time to do so please share the info. with us. Here is a place to find the old records: http://www.a2z.org/wtarchive/archive.htm
19 – You may have missed a couple of post responses to you from me here.
Br, Anonymous, I beg to differ. It is the early Bible Students thast were called the evil slave. They say the descendants are all dead. They do not call the modern descendants anything really as they say they don’t exist.
Now that you and I know that is an untruth, Isn’t it nice to have web-sites such as this one and others to tell us the “truth about the truth”. If you could get pass the obvious prejudice that you have for these survivors and focus on what is being said it might help you to progress as many of us have. We were like you at first, we didn’t believe they were real. Go to a convention in your country, see for yourself, feel touch and pinch them, they are real and have kept busy and in secret from Jehovah Witnesses perhaps for this day. What are your thoughts on some of the articles. For instance, What do you think about the Armageddon podcast clearly showing from scripture that the system goes down, not judgement day? Or do you feel it is judgement for all on that day and what is your scripture support. please, my brother if you will? Sincerely Jacqueline.
I wanted to reply to Ken in his discussion of whether Adam and Eve will be a part of the “Ransom for all,” but it wouldn’t let me reply to any of the other responses. So this is ending up in the wrong place. However,just a plain comment I wanted to make about Adam and Eve eating of the “fruit.” When a parent tells a child, “don’t put your finger in that light socket, sparks will come flying out your ears and you may even die.” That child has no idea what the parent is talking about. And probably have no idea what death is all about. Even though Adam and Eve weren’t children they has as little experience as a child. They were told “on that day you shall surely die,” but they really had no conception until they were ousted from Eden and slowly declined into death. They learned the difference between good and evil. In the resurrection they will have an opportunity to make that final choice between right and wrong. It’s not a do-over, it’s just final judgment time.
Well lot has been said… But I find it interesting what Anonymous says that biblestudents are apostate and the evil slave (or did you mean Sharon in person)… Because what is the pastor then? He wrote clearly in his testament how he wanted that the groups would evolve… He wrote the truth, but when we now decide that what he wrote makes any sense it is false? What is your definition then of truth?
Everybody in that time who read the “studies in the scriptures” knew it was correct what they read, and suddenly it wasn’t anymore? Why? Because someone else said it… A lot where confused about the things Rutherford said, and they asked: “Must we take this seriously?”
I met the Biblestudents through the “kingdom”-book, and all I could think of when I read it was how I wanted thoses classes again, faith that is not governed by others, learning in freedom… Like many I read they didn’t exist any more, it was from the past, but they do… All over the world there are little groups and individuals who preach and worship… Look in acts how disputes were handled, not by a group at the head, no, but by mutually discussing it with each other, learning from each other… Taking the bible (then only the old testament), letters were send, and people learned from them, but they were FREE… If you read the letter to philemon you read about Onesimus, how lovingly he was embraced back in their womb, how can you compensate this with disfellowshipping other humans because they do not agree with you? It just makes me sad, anonymous…
LOVE was the greatest, remember?
How refreshing to hear from you Brother. You stated it calmly and accurately. Welcome and thanks for commenting. I am sure as others awaken they will see your comment and welcome you also. Nice to hear from Brothers on the other side of the world. Most don’t speak but thank you. In Christ Dear Name Jacqueline.
Thank you dear sis… I’m glad to have found your website… I will read a lot in the few weeks to come!
My dear Brother ZENODatus, I really appreciated your comment. Especially, “If you read the letter to Philemon you read about Onesimus, how lovingly he was embraced back in their womb, how can you compensate this with disfellowshipping other humans because they do not agree with you? It just makes me sad, anonymous…
LOVE was the greatest, remember?” I appreciate you using 1 Cor 13:13. I do believe the Watchtower Society has forgotten what true love – Christian love – is!!! If they truly knew Christian love how could they kick out and abandon their children? Their fathers, mothers – other family members and friends. I’ve never known a truer love than that shown by the Bible Students. I have recently been drawing parallels between the Papacy and the Watchtower Governing Body. The Governing Body in their handling of forgiveness makes themselves like the Catholic Priest in forgiving sin. A Witness nor a Catholic is forgiven until the Elder or the Priest say so!!!! GOD has nothing to do with it because they take his place here on the earth. Well, that is what they believe any way. We, Bible Students, know GOD only has the right to forgive the sinner.
Hello Sharon,
Thank you for your kind reply… And yes, I also see not much difference between papacy and the governing body…
Also in their understanding of destroyment of the wicked, I see not much difference between the hell for the infidel like taught by mainstream religion. It was one of the mainreasons why I coudn’t stay a Jehovah’s witness… It just wasn’t right.
And yes, when you want to reinstate in the community, you have to write a letter to the elders where you express your guilt, and then they decide if you are “worthy” enouph to return :s.